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RE: November - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 25-11-2009
Lean over, you fall. Video guy got that right in a sense, but that doesn't translate to speed. Speed comes only from the power with which you push off as your front foot moves under your body. Forward momentum helps that process.
Efficient, fast running surely comes from a stride length that is proportional to your forward momentum/speed. We don't lean forward as we walk, and nor should we when we run.
As people have said here many times before, many of us have noticed that as we tire, we lean forward more and that only serves to slow us down and make the running harder. An upright stance with an easy forward motion without over-striding gives us an efficient, fast running action.
I don't know what your country's equivalent of "Little Athletics" is, but the first thing they seem to teach young kids here is to "run quietly". Kids (and us too) instinctively know how to do that: land on the front of your foot, and you do that by not striding forward too far. This is the most efficient running action. And at this point we run into another conundrum discussed elsewhere - modern running shoes generally don't allow you to do that!
But that's a whole other issue.
RE: November - glaconman - 26-11-2009
Now some proper analytical minds at work.
MLCM, I think you make a vary salient point about the shoes which surely means that it is part of the same issue: ie matching your style with your shoes.
Alot of the Pose debate seems to be about the role of the knee; which is what attracted me to the idea in the first place. Do you generate power through it or does it just flex to allow the hamstrings to do their job. I just need to get a better handle on the physics.
Anyhow, shall try and experiment with my running style and let you know what happens.
RE: November - marathondan - 26-11-2009
(25-11-2009, 11:33 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: Lean over, you fall. Video guy got that right in a sense, but that doesn't translate to speed.
But even to lean over, you need to apply force.
(25-11-2009, 11:33 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: I don't know what your country's equivalent of "Little Athletics" is
It's generally known as "Playstation".
So that's why you guys win so many medals*... you actually teach your kids how to do sport! Wow, why didn't we think of that?
*Except the Ashes.
RE: November - marathondan - 26-11-2009
(25-11-2009, 11:33 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: I don't know what your country's equivalent of "Little Athletics" is, but the first thing they seem to teach young kids here is to "run quietly". Kids (and us too) instinctively know how to do that: land on the front of your foot, and you do that by not striding forward too far. This is the most efficient running action.
It's the most efficient running action for sprinting or middle distance, for sure. But kids aren't taught long-distance road running. (They don't have the stamina, and it would bore them to tears.) As a child or teenager you're unlikely to run more than 1500m on the track or 2M cross-country.
Not sure if that's relevant or not.
RE: November - Sweder - 26-11-2009
I have to refer to EG's mate Barry Sheehan; we're an experiment of one. I find these 'absolute' solutions misleading as they can't possibly apply to everyone. I do agree re: shoes though - the barefoot/ Vibram experience showed that my regular 'style' involves banging in my heel like Terror Tompkins bowling an opening spell at the Poms.
Knee trouble seems fairly common amongst runners so it's a good idea to examine the role of the knobbly bits in any biomechanical review. Mine are rubbish after years of playing football poorly, so anything I can use to lessen the load would be most welcome.
RE: November - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 26-11-2009
(26-11-2009, 09:46 AM)Sweder Wrote: ... so anything I can use to lessen the load would be most welcome.
Dare I suggest avoiding too many of those sessions with SP?
RE: November - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 26-11-2009
Dan, you don't actually apply force to lean over - it really is a falling motion. We lean when we're tired because the core muscles are fatigued and don't hold us upright any longer. But to overcome the falling motion you actually apply pressure to the ground through your front foot, thus slowing you down, exactly what we're trying to avoid.
But yes, you're right about front-foot strike being a sprinting/middle distance action. As far as I can see, efficient long distance runners actually use a flat-flooted gliding stride; barely getting their feet off the ground and landing mid-foot. Where how and/or why shoe designers reckoned we need 3.2 farthing cubits of padding on the heel I don't know. It makes no sense.
As for the knees ... well, I know a bit about this after several years of manipulation at the hands of various specialists. The knee is a wonderful pivot point and that is all. To reduce wear and tear and avoid injuries you "need" a nice straight skeletal structure, good cartilage and well-toned quads (all of 'em, not just the two that running strengthens). The power comes from the quads, the glutes and the calfs/calves. Generally the tendons will looks after themselves if you look after the skeletal structure and the muscle toning, and use glucosamine if your cartilage is dodgy. I seriously think any runner with knee problems needs to find a good podiatrist who understands running and deals with the overall skeletal structure, rather than one who just treats the symptoms. Once your spine is nice and straight and your legs are exactly the same length, a lot of the problems disappear. The main things seem to be to correct any imbalances and avoid pronation. If the knees are simply acting as pivots in an otherwise straight and strong mechanism, they will cope just fine. At least that's been my experience. I can't recommend a good podiatrist highly enough in that sense.
Next week: With My Illotibial Through Afghanistan, or: How I Learned To Love My Plantar Fasciitis.
RE: November - Sweder - 26-11-2009
(26-11-2009, 12:35 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: Next week: With My Illotibial Through Afghanistan, or: How I Learned To Love My Plantar Fasciitis.
Ooh, you had to mention PF didn't you?
Survived my first (and hopefully only) encounter with that bastard earlier this year. Seriously painful.
RE: November - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 26-11-2009
(26-11-2009, 12:48 PM)Sweder Wrote:(26-11-2009, 12:35 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: Next week: With My Illotibial Through Afghanistan, or: How I Learned To Love My Plantar Fasciitis.
Ooh, you had to mention PF didn't you?
Survived my first (and hopefully only) encounter with that bastard earlier this year. Seriously painful.
Simple cure though; rest. And if you can't rest, at least avoid uphill (which generally means avoiding hills full stop of course). And orthotics if it persists.
RE: November - Sweder - 26-11-2009
(26-11-2009, 12:51 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote:(26-11-2009, 12:48 PM)Sweder Wrote:(26-11-2009, 12:35 PM)Mid Life Crisis Man Wrote: Next week: With My Illotibial Through Afghanistan, or: How I Learned To Love My Plantar Fasciitis.
Ooh, you had to mention PF didn't you?
Survived my first (and hopefully only) encounter with that bastard earlier this year. Seriously painful.
Simple cure though; rest. And if you can't rest, at least avoid uphill (which generally means avoiding hills full stop of course). And orthotics if it persists.
You're just being silly now aren't you
RE: November - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 26-11-2009
(26-11-2009, 12:53 PM)Sweder Wrote: You're just being silly now aren't you
I know, I know. A run just isn't a run if it doesn't include a bloody great mountain or two, eh?