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Near death experience. - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 04-04-2014
Another reason these days I try not to fret over times and pacing, etc...
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/mar/22/marathon-almost-killed-me-experience?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 04-04-2014
An author very popular here at RC shares this view.
This looks right up my muddy hill trail
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/20/running-free-runners-journey-back-nature-review
Ps: just downloaded it on my iPad.
I guess that's not exactly what RA had in mind, but needs must.
RE: - marathondan - 05-04-2014
Let us know what you think of the Running Free book, Sweder. Might I venture to say it sounds a little po-faced from the article. Then again, I do get fed up with reading endless blogs and columns about the latest must-have piece of kit. But then again, no-one's forcing me to read them...
The "marathon nearly killed me" article is an interesting one. As I think someone was remarking on the Moyleman thread, it's often an experienced runner with a medical condition (in this case pneumonia) that has serious problems. I'm not sure how you can participate in running as a sport rather than just a pastime without taking notice of time and pace. OK, you can run to effort level rather than pace, but I'm not sure that's really any different.
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 05-04-2014
I'm halfway through the book and I must say, this really is my bag. The reviewer has taken a (fair) view of part of Askwith's book but it is far more than a simple rage against The Machine. RF still runs competitively but he makes a key point. If your best times are undoubtedly (not applicable to a few on here) behind you, obsession with shaving fractions here and there can only lead to disappointment. All this charting and cross-referencing won't make you stronger, faster or a better runner. It simply feeds your inner geek. My inner geek is obsessed with sport, movies and music. I've never put much stock in running stats, though I do appreciate others here would need intensive care if they lost their spreadsheets.
Askwith's quest takes him back to nature, back to the basic joy of running. He makes it clear that he spent years chasing PBs, even taking to treadmills to standardise his training to the Nth degree. But he got stale, there was no joy in the endless pursuit of the next tenth off his 10k time. Askwith wanted to want to run for running's sake.
He advocates leaving the road and running wild. With his eyes off his watches Askwith is drawn to the flora and fauna that he flies past every morning. Of course this 'new religion' won't appeal to many. He writes, albeit a lot better, words and sentences I recognise from my own local runs. I've often said that I can run the same trail three times a week and it looks and feels different every time.
His opening barrage against the Multinationals, the false promise of 2012's Olympic legacy and the average consumer's insatiable appetite for horribly expensive stuff that is rarely proven to actually help has clearly been bubbling away for a while.
RE: - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 05-04-2014
Any good for those of us stuck living and running in the city?
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 06-04-2014
(05-04-2014, 11:32 PM)Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man Wrote: Any good for those of us stuck living and running in the city?
Sadly not. You're all going to hell.
RE: Near death experience. - Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man - 06-04-2014
(06-04-2014, 02:54 AM)Sweder Wrote:(05-04-2014, 11:32 PM)Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man Wrote: Any good for those of us stuck living and running in the city?
Sadly not. You're all going to hell.
Yes, but will it be in a hand basket?
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 06-04-2014
(05-04-2014, 09:46 PM)marathondan Wrote: I'm not sure how you can participate in running as a sport rather than just a pastime without taking notice of time and pace.
Yet this is what Askwith advocates. He claims that, his 30's/ 40's peak times notwithstanding, his times in races have not suffered from his free approach, rather the opposite. He claims (as do I and as has Glaconman in these here parts) that a non-style, rough terrain approach develops strength and stability whilst demanding more effort. It's a good read, agree or not.
To take MLCMMan's plaintive cry more seriously, there's no reason why city dwellers can't run free. OK, you may be stuck with pavements for part or even all of your route, but there's nothing to stop you leaving your watch behind so you can smell the roses, or changing the route as you go, just for the sheer hell of it.
Before I had a Garmin I used to use the kitchen clock, recalling the time I left and running straight back to it on my return. I suspect this would get me a bollocking, too, but, other than in my head, time and pace would not distract me.
Listen, I get it. The man can write. He has an infectious style and it's easy to be seduced by his references to animals and birds, flowers and shrubs. Some of his runs sound a lot like Tales Of The Riverbank. There again, that seems like a far better reason to run that to fill in a spreadsheet. He claims that the reluctance to head off in the dark (he sets off before sunrise to catch the very best of the waking natural world) shrinks when your objectives change.
Going back to the chap who nearly died, it seems underlying medical conditions often play a part in sporting fatalities of this nature. You can't force people to get checked out before they run (NB: MLCMMan has advocated regular health checks on a few occasions, for this and other reasons). I fully understand the twisted view that 'I've done the training, it's not fair that I should have to pull out at the last minute for a cold'. Yet it's hard to sympathise when someone knowingly puts themselves at such a risk.
I had this very conversation just this week, in Shanghai, with the MD of one of our biggest exhibition organisers. He's bright as a button, yet when I suggested he listen to his body on race day and, if he felt good, go for it - he's shooting for circa 3:10 in his first London Marathon next weekend - he all but imploded.
'But I've trained really hard, hit all my targets. I just want to push on and get the best time I can'
He looks gaunt, eyes sunken, wears the mask of the fanatic. It's his first ever run at the distance.
'Just make sure you get round. If you sense you're not at the races, as can and does happen, enjoy the ride and see where it gets you'
He was not thrilled.
When I read the article I thought 'why did you carry on running when you had a full board of red warning lights'. Then I thought 'OK, what would I have done?'. I'm pretty sure I'd have pressed on. I know it, in fact, because that was me, on the broiling streets of Cape Town, seven years ago this month. Lunacy.
RE: Near death experience. - El Gordo - 06-04-2014
I've also downloaded the book but haven't dared confront it yet.
I am firmly in the excess gear and gadget camp, partly (I suspect) in the hope that these are shortcuts to improvement. Of course, they are not, and I'm an even more crap runner with the gear than I ever was without it.
I'm torn. Of course, I love the idea of the au naturel approach, and I can see that it makes sense to rely more on the equipment we were given at birth. And no one outside the industry is going to be too upset that the manufacturers are coming under attack.
But to pick up on MLCMM's question, the Askwith approach just isn't practical for everyone. If you don't live around the corner from a stretch of grassy, open countryside, you have to be a bit more padded, for a start.
The spreadsheet question. Hmm, yes I am a geek. I've always loved the spreadsheet part of the pastime but I've never seen it as adding unnecessary complexity. It's a motivator, and a history. Looking back at my efforts, it;s almost a blog in itself as it helps me recall the long runs, or reminds me of the plods in Cuba and Japan and Iceland.
But I make these points half-heartedly. Even without reading the book, I feel pretty sure Askwith is making a good point. Whatever our standard, we all share the knowledge of the buzz you get from a run. This core pleasure is available despite the technology and not because of it. The tools don't even improve it. They often threaten it. Think of all those people you see in races on cold days with expensive running jackets tied around their waists because they didn't believe they were ever going to warm up. The number of times people feel a thrill to check their watch at the end of a run or race must be exceeded by the times when the emotion is disappointment.
I'd like to think there's a balance. I suspect I'll never give up the toys completely, but -- presuming I eventually force myself out the door again -- perhaps I can think of at least plodding without the ipod and heart rate monitor, and maybe even the watch. The watch is more of a way of automatically having a record of the run via the download. It's never been a tool for making me less slow.
I'm looking forward to the book. FITC is excellent, so I have high expectations. I've recently been plotting a healthier regime, including exercise, so it might help to push me out there. I'm not in the immediate countryside here, but there are some nice woods at the end of the road, and the lake is only 6 minutes and 24 seconds away according to my...
RE: - Sweder - 06-04-2014
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised and certainly not disappointed. Askwith acknowledges the restrictions faced by most, readily confesses to trying many of the gadgets during his running life, and to being a stat junkie. This is not a tirade against runners like us, more a reminder of what running is, and should be, about.
So much of what he talks about dips in and out of conversations we've had on here. Anyway, hurry up and read the damned thing so we can get into the meat of it, else I'll end up quoting so much in here I'll be had up for copyright infringement. I've had to stop reading anyway as I want to wallow in the book all this week in my Bond Villain island retreat* off the coast of West Africa**.
You don't have to have read FITC in order to enjoy this. It is referenced, but only to explain his brevity in describing fell running/ races.
*Hotels.com special deal
**Tenerife
RE: Near death experience. - glaconman - 07-04-2014
It's as though this book had never been written:
Boff Whalley- Run Wild
RE: Near death experience. - El Gordo - 07-04-2014
(07-04-2014, 04:26 PM)glaconman Wrote: It's as though this book had never been written:
Boff Whalley- Run Wild
Not sure why you put it like that, GM old chap. I don't think anyone is saying that the Askwith perspective is new. Anyone visiting pretty much any running forum (including this modest one) will know that the purist point of view is a very well-worn path.
I've read only the first 4 chapters of Askwith and the brief Amazon extract of RW (which I'd not heard of before -- thanks), but it seems like they are covering the same ground but with a slightly different tone. RW seems just a touch dismissive, which might explain some of the comments there while Askwith writes with a more wistful air (so far at least).
But I'm sure both are worth reading and that other books on the subject are yet to come.
I have to say though that I always think that while the Askwiths and Whalleys of this world bemoan the lack of understanding towards the joys of fell running and pelting down steep bumpy hillsides.... there is arguably a lack of understanding on their part of the motivations of the urban plodder. Yes, there is an overlap in this Venn diagram where some of the latter can be drawn into the countryside through books like these, but I'm pretty sure that in the main, we are talking about two distinct herds here with different natural preferences, opportunities and ability levels.
By the time I've finished the book I may have a different take on it.
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 08-04-2014
(07-04-2014, 04:26 PM)glaconman Wrote: It's as though this book had never been written:
Boff Whalley- Run Wild
I have it, and more to the point, I have it with me! Criminally, this has hovered near the top of my reading list for over a year. Time to put that right.
I fell upon Askwith because FITC had such a profound effect on me. EG's hinted at my tongue-in-cheek view that RA spent a while in the RC archive before knocking his latest one out. He's a convert, a former stat-monkey and gadget-hound. It's like looking in a distorted mirror, I keep catching glimpses of myself.
EG may be closer to the truth than RA would like to admit. Many pavement pounders are so due to necessity, not choice. I've lost count of the number of times I've reached the top of the W, or the trig point at Blackcap, taken a deep breath and silently thanked whoever is responsible for landing me on their doorstep. The thought of having to squeeze training runs into the madness of city life makes me shiver.
There's more choice than some will accept or admit, though. Dan and Antonio live in urban areas yet choose to seek out rough terrain races or offroad circuits. You can argue that this approach may have done for Dan's achillies. Dan is the best person to offer insight on that. Whilst nursing my mother last year I'd take off to the local park and plod endless, tiny laps of the local rec, like an ageing, over-fed tiger patroling it's cage. Anything to get off the concrete.
RE: Near death experience. - marathondan - 08-04-2014
(08-04-2014, 05:28 AM)Sweder Wrote: Dan and Antonio live in urban areas yet choose to seek out rough terrain races or offroad circuits. You can argue that this approach may have done for Dan's achillies. Dan is the best person to offer insight on that.No, what's done for Dan's achilles is Dan, and an over-ambitious project to change my running style... to prevent injury. That's not just ironic, that's like being hit over the head with an ironic bar (while taking irony supplements). However, at the time I was in the process of giving up my tarmac addiction, and it was going well. I do think I'll be able return to the fields in some capacity, don't worry. My idea of offroad is a lot different from RA's though.
RE: Near death experience. - glaconman - 09-04-2014
I guess I was just surprised that RA has written a book with a very similar cover and a very similar title about a very similar subject so soon after BW's book. And, lo-and-behold in this quarter's Fellrunner magazine BW reviews RA's book. Naturally.
I should actually be grateful that both have written on the subject. And I'm sure, on reading both I'll discover that they are very different books indeed. They are very different men of course. Although both passionate fell runners.
RE: Near death experience. - El Gordo - 10-04-2014
I will catch up with the BW book -- thanks again GM. I'm feeding small slices of RA into my consciousness during my lunch breaks and so far, I have to say, it's one of those reads that I'm sure we're all familiar with, where we say: "I wish I'd written that".
The prose is splendid, as you'd expect from a pro journalist. The BW extract I read on Amazon was also well written though perhaps a bit more passionate / polemical. I'll tackle it after RA.
I should say that at the moment I can't see myself fully embracing the changes discussed by RA because I still think there's a place for people like me in suburban streets and big organised events where we can feed off the discarded glories of those who passed this way earlier. Sometimes I think that the fellrunning v urban/big races argument is a bit like arguing over ice hockey vs field hockey or 11-a-side football v 5-a-side. Better to treat them as different animals completely even though they share similar underlying motions.
But after I finish RA (and am still only 1/3 of the way through) I may feel different. Can't wait for the next few pages.
RE: Near death experience. - Sweder - 10-04-2014
(10-04-2014, 07:04 AM)El Gordo Wrote: I have to say, it's one of those reads that I'm sure we're all familiar with, where we say: "I wish I'd written that".
Some of us feel we have, though nowhere near so well.
I'll say no more - almost finished the book - other than to agree that it's hard to subscribe wholeheartedly to RA's manifesto. At least he constantly questions himself, a sign that he isn't planning the ritual slaughter of all unbelievers just yet.
RE: Near death experience. - glaconman - 10-04-2014
Yes, I think you'll find the BW book more opinionated and there are detractors because of it.
But I think it's important to understand his position without taking it personally.
Running is suprisingly tribal. People who come from other sports can find it difficult to understand at first. That the context people run in is a choice that helps to express who they are. It's a political act.
RE: - Sweder - 10-04-2014
RA acknowledges these very points, accepting that he has evolved via Big Running (as he calls it) and time-driven fell-running to a place where he now runs for pure pleasure. The final chapter, featuring two incredible races and, in his own words, RA's greatest victory, is a revelation.
About to start BW now. Hanging on to my bowler hat ...
RE: Near death experience. - glaconman - 11-04-2014
Sweder I suspect you will warm to the BW book. If only because his life as a musician, on-the-road, has more than a passing resemblance to your own life.