2013 Part Deux

[marathondan]

Apart from a short plod in torrential rain and lightning - quite spectacular at night in an open field - I'm taking a week or two's rest to get the achilles back to normal (which it pretty much is).

I was interested to see The Great One quoting Chi recently, in particular "Land on the mid-sole or even the toes, but NOT the heel".

Conversely I found this old blog post where Danny Dreyer, in context of achilles problems, says "midfoot strike should be changed to fullfoot strike so as to not cause the same confusion you have experienced in the description. When you land on your fullfoot, the ball and heel of your foot are simultaneously touching as you land."

Like all religions, it seems that not all followers (or leaders) are agreed on exactly how to practice it.

But enough Chi-bashing. Any system that could be resolved down to a couple of one-liners wouldn't be worth bothering with. There's clearly more to it than exactly which bit of your foot you land on - and anyway, we're all an experiment of one.

In the interests of digging deeper, I was about to click "Buy Now" on the Chi book... but decided against, for now. I think we can over-complicate things by reading lots of books. I'd like to think I can work this out by myself. It stands to reason that landing too far forward over-stresses the achilles, so I need to try practicing landing a bit further back and see what effect that has. This needs to include some hard runs, too.

Now I'm used to the shorter strides, I do prefer the style, compared with my old lolloping plod where I could feel every footfall through my hips and spine. It feels a more active way to run. I recall MLCMM talking once about "running quietly", i.e. one the forefoot rather than hell-plodding, and it struck a chord.

So I'll just enjoy this rest a few more days, then get out there again.

Tune in next month, when I've bought the Chi book after all.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

I recall MLCMM talking once about "running quietly", i.e. one the forefoot rather than hell-plodding, and it struck a chord.

As it did me, when I first heard it, which was at one of my kids 'Little Athletics' sessions, where the coach simply told the kids to run "making as little noise as you can with your feet" which seemed to me to distil hours and hours of coaching into one simple message... which worked! It's a sort of holistic, or Zen approach I suppose - you visualise what you want to do and then let the body get on with it ... the brain will work out how to "run quietly" without your self-coaching interference.

[El Gordo]

I was interested to see The Great One quoting Chi recently, in particular "Land on the mid-sole or even the toes, but NOT the heel".

Conversely I found this old blog post where Danny Dreyer, in context of achilles problems, says "midfoot strike should be changed to fullfoot strike so as to not cause the same confusion you have experienced in the description. When you land on your fullfoot, the ball and heel of your foot are simultaneously touching as you land."

Like all religions, it seems that not all followers (or leaders) are agreed on exactly how to practice it.

But isn't the key phrase "Danny Dreyer, in the context of achilles problems, says...""

If you have particular tendon problems, but still want to embrace Chi principles, then you have to adapt your footstrike to avoid aggravating it. Isn't that what he's saying?

That said, it was probably daft of me to mention landing on the toes, because I would find that very difficult, not to mention dangerous. And it's not a recommended Chi-Running style -- or certainly not for people over a certain age and corporeal plumpitude. I think I included toes just to emphasise 'anything but the heels'.

I once watched one of the best runners in Reading running in Reading. Young guy -- twenties. He was weirdly thin, and ran without effort, landing so delicately on his toes that he would have barely made any impression on the ground. In fact -- where did I read that? Or is it a Danny Dreyer idea? It echoes MLCMM's kid's coach's description -- that you should imagine trying to run on soft earth or sand without leaving any footprints.

You can probably get away with that if you're an Ethiopian or Kenyan distance runner or the best runner in Reading running in Reading. I can't.

[marathondan]

I recall MLCMM talking once about "running quietly", i.e. one the forefoot rather than hell-plodding, and it struck a chord.

As it did me, when I first heard it, which was at one of my kids 'Little Athletics' sessions, where the coach simply told the kids to run "making as little noise as you can with your feet" which seemed to me to distil hours and hours of coaching into one simple message... which worked! It's a sort of holistic, or Zen approach I suppose - you visualise what you want to do and then let the body get on with it ... the brain will work out how to "run quietly" without your self-coaching interference.

Yes, that's the story - glad I didn't dream it up! But you can see how that sort of tiptoe approach is stressing my Achilles tendons.

[marathondan]

But isn't the key phrase "Danny Dreyer, in the context of achilles problems, says...""

If you have particular tendon problems, but still want to embrace Chi principles, then you have to adapt your footstrike to avoid aggravating it. Isn't that what he's saying?

That said, it was probably daft of me to mention landing on the toes, because I would find that very difficult, not to mention dangerous. And it's not a recommended Chi-Running style -- or certainly not for people over a certain age and corporeal plumpitude. I think I included toes just to emphasise 'anything but the heels'.

I once watched one of the best runners in Reading running in Reading. Young guy -- twenties. He was weirdly thin, and ran without effort, landing so delicately on his toes that he would have barely made any impression on the ground. In fact -- where did I read that? Or is it a Danny Dreyer idea? It echoes MLCMM's kid's coach's description -- that you should imagine trying to run on soft earth or sand without leaving any footprints.

You can probably get away with that if you're an Ethiopian or Kenyan distance runner or the best runner in Reading running in Reading. I can't.

So let me get this straight... you were reading about this guy in Reading...?

I think the bottom line is that there will be different flavours of Chi for different builds, as you allude El G. I just need to continue adapting.

[marathondan]

Although to go back to the Danny Dreyer post, he did seem to be saying that he thought "midfoot strike" was a misnomer and that it should be called "full foot".

Anyway, some people have bigger problems than this... how's the back, EG?

[Sweder]

It's all dancing around the same handbag that McDougall dips into for Born To Run. Barefoot, Chi ... it's about minimal impact and motion without resistance. Dan, you're right; it's easy to get bogged down in the science. What feels right is probably what's best for you.

When faced with a particularly steep climb I think of 'running over hot coals' to shorten and increase my stride. Less time in contact with the ground = a lighter tread. It clearly puts strain on other areas though - chiefly calf and achilles.

Don't forget posture in all this. Mid/ front foot striking is fine so long as you have balance. Too much forward lean will strain the tendons. There's probably a clever algorithm for calculating the increased leverage on the supporting muscles based on angle of lean and hip position. All I know is, it's all too easy to lean too far forward and strain your lower legs (and your lower back) as a result. Part of the BtR recipe is upright posture. I found that, along with the mental image of spinning the Earth under my feet, stood me in good stead in Connemara. I hope it will again next month.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

I recall MLCMM talking once about "running quietly", i.e. one the forefoot rather than hell-plodding, and it struck a chord.

As it did me, when I first heard it, which was at one of my kids 'Little Athletics' sessions, where the coach simply told the kids to run "making as little noise as you can with your feet" which seemed to me to distil hours and hours of coaching into one simple message... which worked! It's a sort of holistic, or Zen approach I suppose - you visualise what you want to do and then let the body get on with it ... the brain will work out how to "run quietly" without your self-coaching interference.

Yes, that's the story - glad I didn't dream it up! But you can see how that sort of tiptoe approach is stressing my Achilles tendons.

Well, actually, it's not necessarily a tip-toe approach at all - you watch kids running and they have a variety of foot strikes like we all do. What they seem to do quite naturally when told to run "quietly" is to shorten the stride and glide, i.e. keep the feet low to the ground. So while that implies a mid-foot landing, in fact it can be anything, but it won't be exaggerated because of the short stride, hence a quiet landing and fewer injuries.

Or so it seems to me.

But you still need a stable core!

[El Gordo]

Although to go back to the Danny Dreyer post, he did seem to be saying that he thought "midfoot strike" was a misnomer and that it should be called "full foot".

But only "in the context of Achilles problems"? Or am I misunderstanding this? Isn't the fellow advocating a slightly modified foot strike for Achilles' sufferers? If I'm wrong, I will possibly punch myself on the nose.

[Sweder]

What they seem to do quite naturally when told to run "quietly" is to shorten the stride and glide, i.e. keep the feet low to the ground.

What good distance runners appear to have in common is 'minimal' movement. Haile G showed no discernable vertical variance when Niguel and I passed him* in Almeria. He simply glided. Stevio, recent Spartathlete, shuffles along, yet he does so at great speed. Both look remarkably relaxed when they run. Core strength holds it all in place, prevents loss of form.

Why is the simplest way of running the hardest to achieve and maintain?


*in the opposite direction, a full City lap behind

[marathondan]

But only in "in the context of Achilles problems"? Or am I misunderstanding this? Isn't the fellow advocating a slightly modified foot strike for Achilles' sufferers? If I'm wrong, I will possibly punch myself on the nose.

That's not how I read it. He says "I’ve thought for a long time that midfoot strike should be changed to fullfoot strike so as to not cause the same confusion you have experienced in the description" which sounds to me like he was thinking about it long before this guy posted with his achilles problem.

But either way, there's nose reason to resort to self-violence, please.

[marathondan]

What feels right is probably what's best for you.

That's what's frustrating... once I got over the initial change, this style did feel right. I was upright and looking ahead and felt like I was running actively - compared to my old, longer stride style, where my head tended to drop and I could feel each step coursing through my joints.

But it turns out my magic formula still needs some tweaking (extra eye of newt, etc).

[marathondan]

But you still need a stable core!

Nooooo.... don't make me do the core exercises! I know I don't have a strong core.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

But you still need a stable core!

Nooooo.... don't make me do the core exercises! I know I don't have a strong core.

I believe a stronger core would help alleviate those Achilles troubles, Dan. I can't prove it, but I think it's true. A strong core takes an awful lot of strain off the rest of your body.

Now watch me and go and rupture myself.

[El Gordo]

But you still need a stable core!

Nooooo.... don't make me do the core exercises! I know I don't have a strong core.

I believe a stronger core would help alleviate those Achilles troubles, Dan. I can't prove it, but I think it's true. A strong core takes an awful lot of strain off the rest of your body.

Agreed. I've seen various medical professionals recently to discuss my current back/leg problem and all have mentioned the protection that a strong core gives to everything else. I've heard it all before of course, but it's damn hard to stick at.

Sigh. When I'm through this current injury, I will try again.

[marathondan]

I think this is what I'm getting at:

Purpose. Knee pain and Achilles tendinopathies are the most common complaints among runners. The differences in the running mechanics may play an important role in the pathogenesis of lower limb overuse injuries. However, the effect of a runner's foot strike pattern on the ankle and especially on the knee loading is poorly understood. The purpose of this study was to examine whether runners using a forefoot strike pattern exhibit a different lower limb loading profile than runners who use rearfoot strike pattern. Methods. Nineteen female athletes with a natural forefoot strike pattern and pair-matched females with rearfoot strike pattern (n = 19) underwent 3D running analysis at 4 m/s. Joint angles and moments, patellofemoral contact forces and stresses, and Achilles tendon forces were analyzed and compared between groups. Results. Forefoot strikers demonstrated 1ower patellofemoral contact force and stress compared to heel strikers (4.3 +/- 1.2 vs. 5.1 +/- 1.1 body weight, BW; P = 0.029 and 11.1 +/- 2.9 vs. 13.0 +/- 2.8 Mpa; P = 0.04). In addition, knee frontal plane moment was lower in the forefoot strikers compared heel strikers (1.49 +/- 0.51 vs. 1.97 +/- 0.66 Nm/kg; P = 0.015). At the ankle level, forefoot strikers showed higher plantarflexor moment (3.12 +/- 0.40 vs. 2.54 +/- 0.37 Nm/kg; P = 0.001) and Achilles tendon force (6.3 +/- 0.8 vs. 5.1 +/- 1.3 BW; P = 0.002) compared to rearfoot strikers. Conclusions. To our knowledge, this is the first study to show differences in patellofemoral loading and knee frontal plane moment between forefoot and rearfoot strikers. Forefoot strikers exhibit both lower patellofemoral stress and knee frontal plane moment than rearfoot strikers which may reduce the risk of running-related knee injuries. On the other hand, parallel increase in ankle plantarflexor and Achilles tendon loading may increase risk for ankle and foot injuries.

Sources here and here.

[marathondan]

And here's something else interesting:

This would indicate that there’s no reason to switch from a rearfoot stride (common to roughly 80% of shoe-wearing runners) to a forefoot stride, as some have argued in the last few years. At least there’s no reason in terms of improved running economy, which is nearly synonymous with faster race times.

Having said that, I didn't change for reasons of improved running economy, but to try and prevent plantar fasciitis-like injuries. I felt a hell of a lot more efficient going up that hill in Henley though.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

And here's something else interesting:

This would indicate that there’s no reason to switch from a rearfoot stride (common to roughly 80% of shoe-wearing runners) to a forefoot stride, as some have argued in the last few years. At least there’s no reason in terms of improved running economy, which is nearly synonymous with faster race times.

Having said that, I didn't change for reasons of improved running economy, but to try and prevent plantar fasciitis-like injuries. I felt a hell of a lot more efficient going up that hill in Henley though.

One of the (very few) advantages of working night-shift on a quiet night is that I can keep an eye on Fox/Sky Sports, which on Sunday showed the New York marathon live. As it happened, I took note of foot-strike, there being plenty of close camera shots of (particularly) the lead groups.

What I noticed was that nearly all of the elite women had a fore-foot stroke, or at least mid-foot; whilst the men were far more mixed, with plenty of heel-strikers mixing it with mid-foot strikers and a few (but not many) fore-foot strikers.

The other interesting thing was that the women's winner, Priscah Jeptoo, has the most appalling, uncoordinated and inefficient running style of any elite runner I've ever seen.

Just goes to show that there is no one right method. You just have to work out what works for you... as I think everyone here has been saying all along.

What a jolly bunch we are.

On on.

[marathondan]

If we think the elite men are light, just think how light the elite women are. Literally half the weight of some of us chaps. It's a completely different ball game.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

If we think the elite men are light, just think how light the elite women are. Literally half the weight of some of us chaps. It's a completely different ball game.

The commentators mentioned how Tsegaye Kebede (Olympic bronze medallist, twice winner of London marathon etc.) was only 48kg.

So yes, the women must weigh about as much as a loaf of bread. Crazy.