Phase 1 of the Flora London Marathon 2009 online entry ballot has now closed

[marathondan]

In case anyone is planning on entering for next year, be aware:

Due to an overwhelming response Phase 1 of the Flora London Marathon 2009 online entry ballot has now closed. The limit of 80,000 applicants was reached at 10pm on Monday 14 April.

Phase 2 (the remaining 35,000 places in the online ballot and 5,000 paper ballot entries for runners who are unable to enter online) will open on Monday 21 April at 9am. Paper ballot entry forms, for those unable to enter online, are available by pre-registering with the London Marathon helpdesk on 020 7902 0200 from Monday.

www.london-marathon.co.uk/site/?pageID=99

Pretty amazing - 80,000 applicants in 11 hours. I'm off to set a reminder for 21st April...

[Sweder]

Not being one to court controversy I'm bound to say if the FLM put a reasonable time limit on the event - lets say seven hours? - you might get a better blend of runners and quick walkers. It sounds churlish to complain about people raising money for great causes but one reason the race gets oversubscribed is that many successful entrants plan to walk the entire route.

This is something I plan to take up with the JDRF team. JDRF have sponsored walks - they are hugely popular, civilised affairs that cover around 20 miles or so and take all day. Marathons are essentially running races in which people get knackered and take walk breaks. If you want to walk to raise money for charity by all means have at it, but don't apply for a running race and deprive people who want to run in the spirit of the event.

I started to lose it when an extremely rotund couple waddled past halfway at 2.30 pm - getting on for five hours after the start - puffing away merrily on fags. Call me a miserable bugger by all means but I'm not sure that's right.

There was an interesting piece in the Times on Monday by Simon Barnes. Barnes took issue with the charities - my own included - who peddle Golden Bond places. His argument is that people supporting cancer research - or diabetes research for that matter - want their money to go to their chosen charity. With GBs three hundred quid per place goes to the FLM committee who channel the funds into local projects. It might be to provide football equipment for a sports club in Hackney or sheltered housing in Greenwich, all good causes in their own right but I take his point. From the charity's view we simply want to raise as much as we can for research. Whilst GBs do cost us the three hundred sovs they also allow us to raise a great deal more. I'm not sure how many GB places there are but it's also fair to say these places reduce the chances of Jo Public getting in via the ballot. On balance I'm in favour of the GB system (I would be) but I understand the arguments against it.

In the past couple of years JDRF have had people sign up for GB place and fail to raise a single dollar. We pursue them of course but there's a limit - apart from having the FLM ban them for life, which they will do - to the pressure you can bring to bear. You've got to be fairly cold to take a charity place knowing you'll cost them money but sad to say it happens. And I guess if people will do that they'll also lie about their projected finishing time if there's a time limit. To get into some races you have to show evidence of a previous finishing time for a full or half marathon to even be considered for entry. OK for most of us but what do you do if you're a race virgin? It's not easy.

It's a tough call for the organisers who rarely seem able to please anyone never mind fussy bleeders like me.
I'd like to see the smoking, drinking strollers kicked out at least; that's just taking the michael.

[suzieq]

I'm with you on this one Sweder. I've been in too many races where the walkers put themselves near the front and I spend half my time working my way around them. Serious running races are just that - for runners - no matter how slow or fast you run; but not for walkers. There are some races I won't even bother entering because the walkers have ruined it for me. And I can't believe you actually saw people smoking - that takes the cake!

On another note, I plan on entering the FLM again next year. Maybe this time I'll see you and your group as I dash quickly by (!).

Suzie

[marathondan]

Yep, I have mixed feelings about the GB places too. Of course all charities recognise a certain cost of fundraising, but £300 is probably 20-30% of a typical charity runner's total. Then the charity will burn some of that up in admin before the nett amount passes through to those in need.

[Sweder]

Right you are Dan. Happily JDRF are extremely miserly when it comes to overhead - they've featured in Forbes as one of the top three donations-to-research converters/ lowest overhead operators and the ethos is mirrored around national and regional offices. Many of us on fund-raising committees and regional boards are unpaid volunteers - and when I say unpaid I mean we don't claim expenses and often shell out for 'essential supplies' (wine or beer) after meetings The board of directors in the UK are encouraged to make an annual gift to the charity to ensure a negative balance in favour of the Charity.

It does chaff to have to hand over the dosh to Mr Bedford but that's the system and we're happy to play it. The benefits to JDRF are plentiful - with 130 runners out there on Sunday we're looking to net (nett) around a quarter of a million pounds - that buys a good chunk of research. One can argue the validity of one charity over another until El Gordo crosses the finish line - as you know my connection to JDRF is personal so I can't be expected to be too objective. But I do know for example that JDRF have a scientific committee who screen applicants for research grants. I've seen them in action and they're scary people! Again this is driven by the high quotent of sufferers/ parents/ friends of sufferers in our ranks and on our board.

As an aside on the GB places we're indebted to my predecessor Tony Reeves who identified GBs as the way forward and proposed investing in block purchase of GB places. Tony was instrumental in raising the money to buy into the scheme. This involved buying GBs in advance at a time when the FLM was still growing in popularity. It proved to be a master stroke for JDRF and I was lucky enough to follow in Tony's footsteps, inheriting a strong nucleus of guaranteed places. There are a number of notebale charities who missed that particular boat. Unsurprisingly they're amongst the people moaning about the system now (one was the catalyst for Barne's Times piece on Monday).

In addition to all this FLM appoint an official charity for each year. The lucky group are first call for those unlucky in the ballot and have no limit on numbers. This works because, like JDRF, the official charities operate a minimum fundraising amount per entrant. Official charity status is high on our agenda. Bids are pretty technical and must include nailed-on celebs that the charity can offer to boost publicity of the event. We've applied twice and feel we're getting closer. Revenues for the official charity are talked of circa one million pounds for the one event.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

A fire extinguisher or two handed out to the volunteers would soon put an end to the smoking.

Re the walkers, this is a bit tricky in really crowded events like FLM, but in one of the bigger fun runs here they came up with the great idea of marshalling walkers on to the footpaths (pavements in some parts of the world), leaving the road clear for the runners. Works very well, though of course we're not talking about crowds of 35,000... not that it really helps in the case of walkers taking out a runner's entry, but here we have another simple solution ... we just shoot them.


[SIZE="1"](Dead walker being carted off after entering race as a runner.)[/SIZE]

[El Gordo]

No need to be too defensive about the GBs, Sweder. I can see all sides of this argument, but on balance I think the charities themselves should be last in line for any criticism. Others may share my feeling that £300 is on the high side for a GB but if so, it's the organisers to blame for this, not the charities.

Ultimately, the FLM GB system helps to raise far more cash for the JDRF (say) than would otherwise be the case, and that has to be a good thing. As long as at least a sizeable chunk of the £300 goes into charitable and community projects as is claimed, then I can't get too worked up about it.

I totally agree about the walkers thing. I have to be careful here as I'll always be at the more stately end of the field -- but there is, I hope, a clear distinction between those who do the training and run pretty much the whole distance (including those who adopt a deliberate run-walk race strategy), albeit rather slowly, and those who really don't make any effort at all, but who just fancy being part of some high profile event.

I've always had the attitude that (contrary to what many non-runners think) taking part in one of the big city races, particularly marathons and halfs, is an enjoyable and intense experience, and one that is the reward for all the training. In other words, it's a privilege, not a right, and the privilege is earned by all those early morning runs in the freezing cold, or those knackering, baking hot runs on summer afternoons. In short, the medal is the reward for the training and the planning and the sacrifice, and not for the 13 or the 26 miles on the day. This is why the smoking walkers are essentially cheats. They don't understand the deal at all.

The challenge for the organisers though, is how you weed them out?

On the subject of the new FLM entry system, I've nothing against online entry of course. Everyone else has done it for years. But am I being overly cynical to question why the online entries for 2009 opened at midday ON THE DAY OF THE 2008 RACE i.e. while the race was actually happening? Could it be that the 80,000 or so entrants who clogged up the system in those first few hours, are largely people who have never run before, but who just fancied the idea on the spur of the moment whole watching the TV coverage? And in the cold light of day will be thinking, "My god, what have I done?" The organisers have their money.

I wonder how many of those successful in this year's ballot will actually turn up next year? And how many more genuine runners than usual will be disappointed by not even getting their entry in on time?

P.S. I was looking at the New York marathon website the other day and was absolutely shocked to see that it was $256 to enter the race.

[Nigel]

... I was looking at the New York marathon website the other day and was absolutely shocked to see that it was $256 to enter the race.

Now what would you be doing looking at a site like that, Andy ?

[Nigel]

Charity is a huge part of the FLM, and I don't object to charities having to pay £300 for a Golden Bond place, since they still make a good return and it gives the FLM organisers some funds to pump into London-based (rather than national) charities.

Some of the larger charities, like Cancer Research, Breakthrough Breast Cancer and Macmillan Cancer Support (to name just three) are demanding a pledge to raise a minimum of £2,500 in return for award of a Golden Bond place.

That's quite a serious fund-raising commitment.

Anyway, I stumped up my £32 as usual. At least we find out in October this year, rather than December.

[Sweder]

Good for you Niguel. Until MD posted I wasn't aware that the 2009 ballot had opened so I've completely missed the on-line boat. I'll have to sniff out the snail-mail entries. I can always reserve a JDRF place but I'd much rather they go to people who haven't run before and/ or may have a good deal more fund-raising power than I.

Must say I do fancy running next year. I've never been so crippled after a marathon as I have this week. My calves are shot from balancing on the railings for eight hours and my voice is in tatters. Much easier to run the darned thing.

If I get in there's a chap - Paul - who's run the last two for JDRF. He's desparate to break four hours. His time this year? 4:01. It would be quite something to run with him in 2009 and get that taken care of (and settle my own score with London too).

[marathondan]

Until MD posted I wasn't aware that the 2009 ballot had opened so I've completely missed the on-line boat.

Not quite true... there's another 35,000 places available from Monday 21 April at 9am. Get in there quick.

[Sweder]

Is that online Dan? Sorry, being lazy . . . I'll check the FLM site!

[El Gordo]

Now what would you be doing looking at a site like that, Andy ?

Hi Nigel. It's almost as shocking to see you in here as it is me these days...

I'd been following the RW forum thread about the FLM entry system, and someone mentioned the £32 entry. I thought "Crikey, that's cheap." And wanted to compare it. So the answer? Idle curiosity.

Mainly...... I also recall you idly suggesting that maybe we should all go for it sometime.

I'm conscious that I need to offer some kind of update about my pathetic athletic state. I'm also conscious, Nigel, that I've been too rude to reply to your last mail. But my hesitancy is bound up with my even-greater-than-usual uncertainty about whether I'm a runner anymore, and even more tellingly, whether I'm a writer anymore. My inner jury is out. We must definitely get together soon, but I'm a bit all-over-the-place at the moment. Bear with me.

All that said, when I saw Suzie's earlier message about running FLM next year, some RC instinct stirred, and I did wonder whether this would be a great opportunity not just to do it again, but to revive the community thing that I seem on the verge of unwittingly killing.

And now I see Nigel entering, and Sweder talking about it... [SIZE="1"](But hang on Sweder, aren't you committed to TOM next year?)[/SIZE] What if Glaconman and SW went for it? And some of our great Spanish friends?

Or is the idea good but the venue bad? i.e. could we build an Almeria-style re-bonding around a marathon, and a marathon that's a lot easier to enter than FLM? One that we might even get RB and BB along to? Or (gulp) MLCM? Or (double-gulp) the magnificent SP?

Is there an event that's right in terms of distance, location, time of year, ease of entry....?

Maybe it is FLM. I'd do it for the JDRF, or another charity, if I can't get in via the ballot.

Any thoughts?

-----------

[SIZE="1"]** ASIDE FOR SWEDER: I'm commited to raising my £1500 for the JDRF incidentally, even though I couldn't get to Boston. M is organising a JDRF fund-raising event at her work tomorrow, and I've also got a match-funding up to £250 from my own work for something I'll do later in the year. So while I cocked up yet again in my running aspirations, the JDRF won't suffer.[/SIZE]

[stillwaddler]

I've got my entry in, Mrs SW culdn't complete his as it kept failing when he refused to pledge his money if he wasn't succesful in the ballot? However, he will be trying again on Monday too. I thought it was odd to open the ballot when even the elite runners had barely finished the current race.

It would be brilliant if we all got in, we would def. need team shirts then.

I have mixed feelings about the Gold Bond entry system I ran on one in 2006 and raised close on £2,000. I think £300 for an entry from a charity to give to another charity is a bit weird, but hey, my half mara raised approx that amount so you can get one free next year Sweder;-)

A colleague of mine who I introduced to running about three years ago ran this year for the first time, she did it in 4hours 13 minutes which was brilliant -mind you she is half my age;-( but she decided not to raise money for anyone which seems a really wasted opportunity, especially as everyone at work was asking her which charity she was collecting for.

I'm appalled by the idea of smokers on the route - why don't the marshalls just hoick them out? I don't suppose it occurred to the organisers that anyone ever would, maybe a line in the rules to say it's banned and anybody spotted smoking by a marshall would have their timing chip stopped and thier medal withheld.

If we didn't get into London, how about Paris? Not sure I can tackle an autumn marathon as I feel vaguely appalled at the idea of training through what might be a hot summer.

El Gordo - you are a runner and a writer whether you choose to acknowledge it or not - we, after all, have proof :-) Come on, lace up the shoes and slap on the vaseline, we are waiting to hear all about it.

[El Gordo]

I'm starting again on Monday after a a rather fitful few months. I trotted round the Almeria 10k, or rather 13K, to test the knee and it was fine. Decided to do nothing in February apart from eat.

March came and I started my weight-loss plan -- no alcohol and strenuous daily walking. Was great for 2 weeks. Lost 10 pounds and felt much fitter. Then Pete Tong came a visiting and I've slid all the way back.

Time to give it another go.

If I fail this time I may as well just admit that I've stopped running, and find some other virtuous pursuit. Seriously. No point in deluding myself.

[suzieq]

Andy - I just have to say that you can't quit running! Just think of all the other side benefits you get from running (this forum, Almeria, friends all over the world...). This wouldn't have happened without the common thread of running. I always say it's the social aspect of running that keeps me out there. Actually running a race is really not that much fun (for me). It's the afterwards part when you all meet for a coffee or something stronger that makes it fun. Without running, a big part of my life would be gone.

And to now seriously think about the 2009 FLM. Sounds like there might be a few of us running it. Because we go through the overseas tour group, I think we're assured of a spot. So we're in. Wouldn't it be great to all be training for the same race and plan on getting together (I won't screw up this time!) in London both before and after. After is more fun... And maybe SP might want to join us??!

So just get out there!

Suzie

[El Gordo]

Andy - I just have to say that you can't quit running! Just think of all the other side benefits you get from running (this forum, Almeria, friends all over the world...). This wouldn't have happened without the common thread of running. I always say it's the social aspect of running that keeps me out there. Actually running a race is really not that much fun (for me). It's the afterwards part when you all meet for a coffee or something stronger that makes it fun. Without running, a big part of my life would be gone.

And to now seriously think about the 2009 FLM. Sounds like there might be a few of us running it. Because we go through the overseas tour group, I think we're assured of a spot. So we're in. Wouldn't it be great to all be training for the same race and plan on getting together (I won't screw up this time!) in London both before and after. After is more fun... And maybe SP might want to join us??!

So just get out there!

Suzie

Thanks Suzie. I'm definitely going to get out there on Monday morning. I'm up for it. But something has definitely changed in the last few months -- very probably linked to my change of job and routine. I've had blog-paranoia for the first time ever, and this has changed things pretty fundamentally.

I agree it would be great for all of us to do London again next year, particularly if SP decided to give it a shot. I'll have a go at getting in for the ballot on Monday. and take it from there.

[Sweder]

I hope you can rekindle your love of running EG, but if not then you absolutely must find a forum for your writing. I know you (like me) find/ found the two inextricably linked but there has to be another trigger out there. This place is much the poorer without your considered, beautifully crafted thought-provoking pieces. The fast food fare of recent months is all well and good but everyone needs a proper Sunday sit-down from time to time

On the JDRF front there's no time limit or pressure. I've no doubt the guys will be eternally grateful for anything you and M raise. Take a step back and check out some of the challenge events; trek the Inca Trail, Great Wall walk, Cycle the Nile (I know, but they mean the tow path) . . . we're adding all the time. Meanwhile if we get the band back together you may yet realise your Boston dream. Don't give up on it just yet.

I'll be maddly bashing my keyboard on Monday along with everyone else to get into the FLM. Yes I'm committed to TOM 2009 but I reckon if I put my feet up for two weeks after Cape Town I'll be just right for a 26.2 recovery run . . . I love the idea of a team outing in London. The rehydration possibilities are mouth-watering . . .

[marathondan]

EG - I must add my voice to the clamour for your writing. There's no point trying to decide which of the talented writers on this forum is the "best" - 'twould be like comparing a cold Guinness with a quality single malt, for example - but your blog posts were / are a work of art. I'll leave it at that.

Sweder - re the "Cycle the Nile"... are you sure they don't mean pedalos?

And re the smokers - are we guilty of being a bit judgemental / harsh? If a fun runner picked up a pint on the way round, would we be so appalled? Or indeed a decent runner who felt the (inexplicable) need for a drag during the race. It's not the smoking per se that's the problem, it's just those who treat it as a walkathon. Only credible solution for me: a cutoff time, unless you are exempted in advance by means of old age or a serious fancy dress outfit.

[Sweder]

Runners do pick up a pint - it's part of the HHH's tradition to sup a pint en route. I don't see it as the same thing at all. Runners regularly drink beer after a race - see ubiquitous references to 'rehydration' or any post from SP in these hallowed halls. Beer drinking can be considered a companion to running whereas smoking, even in 'moderation', is a debilitating habit that leads to lung disease, heart failure and death. The fact that smoking so badly affects the lungs makes it pretty much the leading contender for the title of the Anti-Runner.

Just my opinion of course. I feel certain that many of the thousands of Cancer Research runners and supporters will feel the same.