well it makes you think...

[stillwaddler]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8158777.stm

[glaconman]

You're right SW. It's an interesting one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...money.html

[Sweder]

Interesting articles. I took the liberty of leaving a comment on the Beeb, though my blatant plug for this place may result in exclusion.

I read a fascinating article in a dentist's waiting room last month regarding barefoot running. Here's links to a couple of related sites

http://runningbarefoot.org/
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_running

There seems to be increasing evidence that barefoot running can lessen impact injuries - who'da thunk it? I met a chap during the TOM who was running (rather better than me) sans shoes. That was his 19th barefoot two oceans, to go along with his 19 completed barefoot Comrades, a snip at +90k on the road

[marathondan]

Clearly, impact-absorbing shoes make it possible for us to heel-strike. Without them, as in the old days, we'd be running on the balls of our feet. Running in that style, I think pronation is greatly reduced, which obviously avoids a lot of problems.

But I can't help thinking that the injury incidence was lower in those days because the only runners were naturally talented athletes, and thus generally tougher.

As always, the Daily Mail article is highly biased; I suspect it's based on highly selective data, and contains obviously completely untrue statements (e.g. "Despite pillowy-sounding names such as 'MegaBounce', all that cushioning does nothing to reduce impact. Logically, that should be obvious - the impact on your legs from running can be up to 12 times your weight, so it's preposterous to believe a half-inch of rubber is going to make a difference." Complete bullshit.) And this David Smyntek chap who actually wore his shoes on the wrong feet and didn't get injured? Huh?

I think there is probably quite a lot to be gained from trying flats, and I have been tempted in the past. There are some good comments on the Daily Mail article about how long it takes to get used to the new style.

We're all an experiment of one. The only thing I can say from experience is that the one time I took a pair of shoes out to 700 miles, I got backache every time I ran. New shoes, problem went away.

[Sweder]

I've never been comfortable with my attritional style of running - I could well be the architypal heel striker; Stephen Jones could follow me 'round and kick 40 yard conversions out of the divots I take on soft ground.

Some of these barefoot/ flats articles got me thinking.
I'm not sure you're right Dan - I agree that runners were most likely more athletic types before this fad came upon the rest of us; however, some of the more scientific data (the Daily Mail is a comic, and not a good one - bah!) on the subject suggest real improvements/ injury reduction for runners who suffer reccurring problems switching to the flat-shoe/ barefoot method. We should of course add salt; there's usually an ulterior motive behind these stats - damned lies and all that.

This grabbed me because I seem to get the same old knee, calf and ankle trouble no matter what shoes I wear, new or old. Some of my problems stem from an excess of lard but I'm also well aware that my drunken stumbling methods don't help. It could be a false dawn, but if changing my running 'style' radically - from Quasimodo lope to upright, up-on-you-balls Meat-o-saurus style elegance - means I may get to extend my 'career' I'm going to dig a little deeper.

[marathondan]

Yeah, I must admit I'm tempted to slip on some old squash shoes, tiptoe to the park, and then try a few laps avec pieds aux naturelles.

Then again, so far I've never had an injury in 8 years of running. Maybe I should stick with what I know for the time being.

[El Gordo]

I'm not able to make a scientific contribution to this debate. As a poor punter (poor partly through the sums of money shelled out on running shoes over the past 8 years), I have to rely on the wisdom of others in these matters. The books tell me that 'proper running shoes' are the single most important item in the runner's locker, and this I must believe until a definitive new truth is disseminated.

What I can say, in an echo of Dan's (after George Sheehan's) remark that we're all an experiment of one, is that I find it inconceivable that someone as fat, old, and unathletic as me would benefit from less cushioned shoes or worse, no shoes at all. I can well see a wiry, featherweight African skipping the trails in bare feet, but surely the heavier you are the more vulnerable to injury you would be in no, or flimsy, footwear? We've all, surely, had the experience of running for a bus or train in our work shoes, and being puzzled by just how rubbish we are at running in non-running shoes?

That said, you have to wonder how the runners of yore managed. You see pictures of runners going back a few decades, and they seem to have leather shoes with flat heels and thin soles. So perhaps it is all down to conditioning.

Interesting to hear what the Swede says on injuries and running efficiency though. A couple of days ago I received my video of the Boston Marathon, with excerpts of me going past at certain points -- the start, 10km, halfway point, 30km, and finish line. What struck me was how my running style disintegrated as I went through the race. In particular, I noticed that from halfway on, as I was tiring, I was sort of swaying from side to side, while people round me were just pounding forward. This has to be an inefficient, slow, and energy-sapping way to run, and had me thinking that this is an area I could strive to improve to help conserve energy.

In the meantime, I'm sticking with my heavily cushioned Asics Foundations, along with the extra insoles and padded socks.

[glaconman]

I think alot of it is to do with how our feet are designed to work. I don't have the theory to-hand so I'll spare you a bad attempt at the medical theory.

But think about track running. Spikes have no cushioning; that's provided by the tartan track. Allowing the athlete's feet to work as they were designed to.

I think the answer to changing your running style is to step right down in the distances. The 5ks I've been doing have rolled-back the years for me. And I'm sure my style has changed as I've had to run faster.

[El Gordo]

I think the answer to changing your running style is to step right down in the distances. The 5ks I've been doing have rolled-back the years for me. And I'm sure my style has changed as I've had to run faster.

Interesting point. Something I've not yet mentioned as it's still in I'll-believe-it-when-I-see-it state is the rumoured start of the Reading parkrun. This is the weekly 5K Saturday morning tear-up series that goes on around the UK (Sweder does the Brighton one sometimes). I've already resolved that it if it really happens, I'll aim to make it a weekly event for me, with the usual running schedule moved around a bit to accommodate. Partly for the reason you state -- that it might help to get me lumbering a bit less slowly.

[suzieq]

I'm actually very interested in hearing more about barefoot running. I think there might be something in it. I know a guy that runs either barefoot or with sandals; in the winter he'll put on what looks like a very old pair of runners. And he's never injured. I'll talk to him about this and let you know. There is also what I call a foot glove on the market that I'm interested in trying - not quite barefoot but almost. The thought of running barefoot where people are spitting, etc. doesn't appeal to me; this would be a good option.

Suzie

[Sweder]

The thought of running barefoot where people are spitting, etc. doesn't appeal to me; this would be a good option. Suzie

I have similar reservations regarding sheep deposits and sharp flint.
Like to know more about the 'foot-glove' thing.

Glaconman is spot on - running the B&HTT 5Ks does change my stance and style; it's balls-to-the-wall, lungs-in-the-throat stuff (whatever your class or lack of it). The propulsive nature of the event - caught in a tide of running madness - seems to encourage a forward tilt, off-setting my usual heavy-heeled thump. I aim to get back there this Saturday; it's been a while ...

BTW GMan; 19:44 is a superb time for a 5K on the flat, never mind up hill and down dale. Well done.

Ooh! Robin Trower 3@3 on Planet Rock ...

[El Gordo]

I wonder if Suzie's footglove is the same as the products I saw being demonstrated at the Boston Expo?

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/

[Sweder]

UK Distributor details:

Contact name: Mr Matthew Wallden
Company name: Primal Lifestyle
Email address: info@fivefingers.co.uk

Telephone no: 01372 200640

Address:
8 Tanners Dean,
Leatherhead, Surrey
KT22 8HB

[suzieq]

That is the glove I was talking about. Did you hear any comments on it? I'm going to try to find it here in Calgary and test it out.

Suzie

[El Gordo]

It was a very busy stand. I wanted to talk to them about the product -- curiosity rather than a strong desire to buy -- but didn't get the chance. There were a lot of people trying them on and sort of squealing (with pleasure I think), which you may or may not wish to take as an endorsement

I seem to recall people saying they felt 'natural'.

[Sweder]

I wrote to the UK outlet this afternoon, explaining I like to run off-road and describing the terrain and distances (5 to 20 miles).
Here's what I got back:

Hi Ash

The Fivefinger KSO's would definitely be the shoes for you.

With regards to running barefoot is best to start of very slow and gradually increase the intensity of training. If you are not used to being barefoot it is best to start of with walking in the shoes just in your everyday life (if possible) and then start with small distances at a slowish pace to get the foot conditioned, you will then be able to build up to full running over time and reap the benefits of barefoot gait.

Let me know if you have any further queries

Kind Regards

Mike
Primal Lifestyle

OK, in for a penny ... I'm going to track down a pair this week and start with a few mini-plods on the fields behind my house.
Ideal advice from Mike there; I'm almost back to square one with my running anyway; no better time to give this a whirl.

Stand by for earth-shaking laughter in the East Sussex area ...

[Seafront Plodder]

[cynical bastard] Ah yes, another product launched to solve a problem you never knew existed, let alone had[/cynical bastard].

Sweder - you, a pair of those and the flint hills of Sussex? I'm telling ya it'll only end in tears.

[El Gordo]

I'll be very interested to hear how that goes, though I can't see myself running in them for a long time. I might happily use them for pottering round the house though. How much are they costing you?

[Sweder]

I've always said less is more ... and it certainly applies to running shoe fabric.
A snip at 98 sovs to you guv. Lawks a-mercy ... you can buy proper shoes for that.
I wonder how long they last? Not parting with any folding until I've tried them on - heading for the outlet in N1 tomorrow lunchtime.

I've just glimpsed a disturbing future, the aftermath of my early morning, barefoot sojourns across the misty Sussex hills ...
... that's how these things get started you know ...

[Sweder]

Now the proud owner of a set of FiveFingers KSO 'offroaders', though darned if I can see any discernable advantage on the soles. The upper foot is covered by airiated webbing (the 'sprint/ road' versions are more open, a la ballet shoe style).

Road test set for tomorrow morning, 1 mile max (more likely it'll be less).
Reports here first, and on twitter (@sweder).

Have to say first impressions (admittedly still in the shop) favourable. It does feel like you're barefoot only with heavily caloused pads on the fore-sole and heel. I'm not convinced they're going to handle random sharp stones/ flint terribly well, but most other obstacles should be OK.

Well, you only live once ...

Unrelated news (apart from the FF outlet being in Islington) I opted for a liquid luncheon at the Hope & Anchor. The H&A was host to some of the finest punk-era bands - Stranglers, Specials, Jam, Ian Drury & The Blockheads et al - in the late seventies.

I was lucky enough to win tickets on a radio show back in the day (1977) - Your Mother Wouldn't Like It, late evenings on Capital Radio, DJ one 'Little' Nicky Horne - and trotted off to the Big City for a life-changing night. That night I crammed my slender frame in with 200 bouncing, sweating souls to see the Stranglers crank out one of the most feverish sets of Rhythm & Blues/ Pop-Rock in history. A live recording, taken for broadcast by Capital Radio, made its way onto a free EP issued with the first x-thousand copies of Black & White (the Stranglers' 3rd album). My dubious claim to fame is the rebel yell featured on the intro to 'Tits' was in fact mine.

Sitting here now on a scarred, heavily-stained wooden bar-stool, the daylight-infused main bar empty save a few snap-happy tourists and an ecclectic selection of wall posters young and old, the memories of that night come flooding back. The raw energy, pure and, as yet, unadulterated excitement of those heady times lingering like ectoplasm around the recently (post-smoking ban) decorated cornices. I engaged the barman in some reflective banter before buying him a pint, whereupon he stuck on a selection of fabulous audio nostalgia; early Jam, Ramones (I wanna be sedated), Stranglers, Tenpole Tudor (Swords of a Thousand Men) ... who knows what's next?

Chances are I won't make it back to the office this afternoon ...