July Hibernation

[marathondan]

Great piece MLCM (I mean the article, not the hair). It will take some digesting, I think.

My own spiritual quest (other than running) has taken the form of a long and inconclusive dalliance with Christianity. I spend much of my time going around in circles. Another parallel with running...

One immediate comment is on that Tao chap - "Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery / By having desire, you can only see what is visibly real." Surely that can only be a short-term thing? To me, if you take aware desire, then there's nothing left to life - whether you see humans as spiritual beings, or just jumped-up animals.

In fact it's a paradox - because the desire to free yourself from desire is itself a... you can see where I'm going. But then again, I find that most philosophies are paradoxical in some way.

I look forward to seeing what the heavyweight thinkers* of RC have to say on this one.

[SIZE="1"]* that is, those who do heavyweight thinking [/SIZE]

[Ana]

I can only agree with Andy and Maranthondan and copy paste it in my own "Best of RC" file*


[SIZE="2"]*I am also thinking about tatooing the word MLCM in my skin, in order to put this photo as my AVATAR, but....
yes, it would be too much [/SIZE]

[Sweder]

I really enjoyed reading that MLCMan - I can certainly relate to a great deal of your observations. The ability to listen and the advantages of being listened to; this is, for me, the very essence of this special place.

Perhaps the loneliness of the long distance runner should really be the introspection of the long distance runner.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

One immediate comment is on that Tao chap - "Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery / By having desire, you can only see what is visibly real." Surely that can only be a short-term thing? To me, if you take aware desire, then there's nothing left to life - whether you see humans as spiritual beings, or just jumped-up animals.

In fact it's a paradox - because the desire to free yourself from desire is itself a... you can see where I'm going. But then again, I find that most philosophies are paradoxical in some way.

I'm no Taoist scholar - far from it. But I agree, on the face of it Taoism does seem to be a mass of paradoxes...

[SIZE="1"][SIZE="2"]When there is no desire,
All things are at peace.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

It seems to be more about being in harmony with your natural environment and indifferent to success or failure. Through detachment from artificiality, we can conquer fear and attain bliss.

Apparently.

My own spiritual quest (other than running) has taken the form of a long and inconclusive dalliance with Christianity. I spend much of my time going around in circles. Another parallel with running...

You ain't alone, brother.

More to come...

[glaconman]

Keep it coming Fella. It's enriching and wonderful to read.

One thing it brought to mind was an excerpt from 'Bowling For Columbine' the doco by Michael Moore. It was a conversation with Marilyn Manson who had been accused by conservative reactionaries of exacerbating, or even causing, the problem of violence through his music. What he said was beautiful:

Moore:"If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine and the people in that community, what would you say to them, if they were here right now?"

Manson:"I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say."

In that one sentence he showed more intelligence and maturity than all the half-wits who are wheeled out after these events to point the finger.

Rather mischievously it also brings to mind a scene from a Woody Allen film were he's wandering through Central Park looking for a team for his son to join; but all the teams are faith or belief based and he's stuck in some kind of nihilistic rut so he can't join any. He feels so excluded and is determined to get some strong beliefs so at least his son can join a sports team.

Anyway, I'm not taking the p*ss - that last observation is directly related to my own pickled state-of-mind; not anybody elses.

It's these kind of threads that get me out of the door. Like they did tonight for the first time in bloody ages. So thanks for that.

[El Gordo]

I've read it again, twice, and I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't need a response. Sometimes I feel almost obliged to acknowledge really good contributions. Something to do with my semi-proprietorial staus, and also, possibly, in my less secure moments, a fear that people may go away if they think they're unappreciated. But these seem to be pretty shallow instincts at the moment.

And MLCM himself explains why no response is required. The self-regulating tension between talking and listening.

That said, it stimulated a few thoughts, as I'm sure it will have with everyone else. One thing it did touch on that always interests me is the dynamic between running and writing. I've long realised that for me, running is the fuel that drives something else. Without the fuel, I'm stuck. This isn't to say that running has no other purpose. Of course it does. Coming home from a decent run, sweating and exhausted, having a shower and pulling on fresh clothes, is itself a life-affirming and enriching sensation. But the true benefit is the way that that feeling can be recycled and fed into other creative activities. It's primarily a means to an end, even though it has many good intrinsic qualities too. It's why I find non-running periods paralysing, and so serious.

As for the god stuff, it's done the opposite for me. I agree that running can be a spiritual experience, but as we all know, spiritual isn't the same as religious. I've never been more comfortable with my atheism, and more certain about it, than I am these days. For me at least, running has clarified all those things. I'm much more interested now in how bright, rational people can hold fantastic (in the true sense of the word) beliefs about heaven and hell and miracles and stuff. I'm fascinated by the idea that some intellectual boxing match is going on inside them all the time. But perhaps it isn't.

Perhaps it's the spiritual strokes I get from running that has helped to boot any lingering religious doubts out the back door. I don't want that to be interpreted as arrogance though, please. I've stopped (I think) being rude about most religious people. I can't help being certain that there's no god in the traditional sense. Perhaps I don't think about it enough to have doubts.

But anyway, MLCM -- I'm sorry to see that you're in some pain at the moment. It happens to all of us, if that's any consolation. It is to me. It's part of the fascination of running that it spins us around, like we're planets in a solar system, sometimes close to the sun, warm and bright, and sometimes a long way from everything. And not just circling the sun but spinning around on our own intellectual axes at the same time. No two days, no two moments, ever quite the same.

If my vast age has taught me nothing else, it is that life is cyclical. It's wheels within wheels. (Or "weals within weals" as I recall an adolescent poem of mine saying.) Your orbit has moved you away for a while, but that very same orbit is bringing you back.

Why not read some George Sheehan?

http://www.georgesheehan.com/essays/

I should do what I promised myself a couple of months back -- to read a bit of Sheehan every day.

Hmmm. A bit like believers reading a bit of the Bible every day?

As Hal Higdon would say: Yikes.

[Sweder]

Unsurprisingly I rather like Lemmy's take on religion;

Don't need no blind belief
Don't need no comic relief
Don't need to see the scars
Don't need Jesus Christ Superstar
Don't need no Sunday Television
Bet your life you don't need religion

To be fair he had a one-eyed view on the clergy. His old man was a preacher and I think it's fair to say they didn't get along. Lemmy named his first band The Rockin' Vicars just to p*ss the old b*st*rd off.

I take the rather haughty view that religion appears to be responsible for an awful lot of strife in the world and is, therefore, an undesirable influence. My good friend Rog-Air and his Habbikuk hoards would no doubt love to get me into a darkened room for a few hours . . . :p

[El Gordo]

I take the rather haughty view that religion appears to be responsible for an awful lot of strife in the world and is, therefore, an undesirable influence. My good friend Rog-Air and his Habbikuk hoards would no doubt love to get me into a darkened room for a few hours . . . :p

Well, at least Rog and his mates seem to believe in doing something practical. I've nothing against church organisations who do useful things for the community.

Anyway, I mustn't get dragged into this now, I've got work to do.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Sometimes when I’m running on my treadmill I’m struck by the irony of what I’m doing and its symbolism of life in general. Working hard but going really nowhere somehow seems futile even when it feels good.

It gets a little weird thinking like this. It’s not actually how I experience life. I’m generally more optimistic. When I’m open to the idea I find every day is slightly different, like different flavours of ice cream. It’s the subtle nuances that make the experience positive despite the basic sameness of the underlying stuff. No matter how much you like ice cream however, there comes a time when you are just sick of it and need something else. Something savoury.

People get funny ideas about me. Perhaps it’s the orange hair or Frankie, my pet hyena. Whatever. But that’s not who I am. It’s my thoughts that make me MLC Man. The things I believe and like or don’t like. For example, I don’t like crowds, or driving in traffic. I do like peace and quiet, nature and art. And primal stuff. Snowy mountains, rain on a tin roof, surf crashing on a beach and wind howling through the power lines. I hate lawn mowers, chainsaws and especially those noisy garden blower-vac things.

I’m materialistic, but hate being so. Stuff appeals to me, but when I acquire it, the magic disappears. All material stuff is the same. Like Homer’s Sirens, materialism drags you onto the rocks with enticing, but empty promises. This is why art should be free. When you pay for it, you debase it and it isn’t art anymore.

Money affects everything - art, religion, and especially sport.

A good run makes you feel great, like the wedding of a close friend or a magical day in the mountains. But a bad run is like a bad day at work. The ones I remember are what motivates or discourages me for the next run. And my memory is prompted by recent events. So a bad week at work is highly unlikely to encourage a run. This is a pity, because that’s when I need it most.

Time is running out. It’s not just race day that approaches, but the end of life as well. To achieve anything means to race against time. But nothing is easy, and time is short.

Often I wish I was a talented and famous artist, and could reach people with messages that make the world a better place. Messages about being kind, and thinking more about the future and less about holding grudges from the past.

I get so tired of everyday things. Go to work, go home, sleep, get up, go to work, go home, sleep, get up … but that is life, and when I’m honest, it’s the life that I chose. It’s a life I could change any time I want to. I have that freedom. I am not a slave. And that’s the thing. It’s not actually everyday things that kill me, it’s the knowledge that I have the freedom to change them, but don’t.

Perhaps I should live a simpler life. Give myself more time to walk in the mountains, write my novel and learn to paint watercolours half decently. Time to take long walks on deserted beaches, and to run them too. But I don’t think I’d handle it very well.

Have you ever taken a big ripe juicy tomato, put it in your hand and just squashed it? Felt the juice and pulp squeeze through your fingers? Smelled the aroma of virginal tomato juice enticing your nostrils and had your eyes excited by the vividness of multitudinous shades of red? And then marvelled at how easily you crushed the life out of one of nature’s sensuous miracles?

No, nor have I, but I think about such things, especially when I’m running. I sometimes wonder if we don’t squeeze the life and soul out of ourselves just as easily.

But these things are easy to write about. The uncertainty of life is felt keenly by anyone who stops to consider it. What though, of love and faith, spirituality and religion? People here seem keen to discuss faith and religion in particular. I’m not so keen myself, for reasons that are hard to explain, but think of it like this…

Suppose for a moment that there was only one, true form of art that gave purpose and meaning to life and was the key to the hereafter.

Now, go out and find that one true art form, convincing yourself that you have found the right one and that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Let’s further suppose for the sake of argument that the one true art form is rockabilly.

Now go and convince everyone who disagrees with you that you are correct.

Let me know how you get on.

[glaconman]

[Sweder]

This is wonderful stuff MLCMan - I'm so glad you decided to share your thoughts here.

I’m materialistic, but hate being so. Stuff appeals to me, but when I acquire it, the magic disappears.

Ain't that the truth brother. It's almost instant.
I tell my kids; 'If you think you want something try to imagine you've bought it, you've got it home, unwrapped it and, ignoring the instructions, fiddled with it for an hour or two. Then see if you still want to buy it.' It's Magpie syndrome - all that glitters and all that. Spot on.

A good run makes you feel great, like the wedding of a close friend or a magical day in the mountains. But a bad run is like a bad day at work.

Ah, we disagree. A bad run in the hills will, for me, always be better than a good day in the office. Perhaps that says more about my work than running, but that's the way it is.

Suppose for a moment that there was only one, true form of art that gave purpose and meaning to life and was the key to the hereafter.

Now, go out and find that one true art form, convincing yourself that you have found the right one and that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Let’s further suppose for the sake of argument that the one true art form is rockabilly.

Now go and convince everyone who disagrees with you that you are correct.
Let me know how you get on.

And, to take this wonderful analogy a step further, when people diagree with your view take up arms to pursuade them that yours is the one true way. It really is madness, no?

Funny you should select Rockabilly - just so happens there's a new kid on the block who's started a wonderful new combo . . .

[El Gordo]

Yeah, you should hear my rockabilly bass riffs....

Perhaps I'm the messiah after all. I've always had a hankering suspicion...

Agree totally about acquisitiveness. I start to want things. Pining increases, reaches frenzy level. Total interweb absorption. I do it. It arrives. I'm thrilled for a short while, then very pleased for a bit. But within a day or two it's just another thing I own. I'm probably still glad I've got it. But the child-on-Christmas-morning magic has evaporated. On to the next thing...

In fact, this will make a good list. We haven't done one for a while. Top 3 gadgets or shiney new things you'd like to own. I'll put it on a new thread though.

And yes, very interesting stuff again from MLCM. To be honest, I feel almost relieved. For too long he's seemed far too rational a guy to be called Midlife Crisis Man. At last, he's living up to his moniker. I suspect we've all been there to a greater or lesser degree. My recent significant birthday has caused a few internal ripples, I can tell you, but that's a subject for a different place.

I have only one word of advice cobber -- RUN!

Believe me, it's the only god you need. I'm out the door now to relearn that lesson yet again.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Ah, we disagree...

You can't disagree with me Sweder, people are building shrines to me in Leeds. Glaconman's running nirvana is assured, but you still have some work to do.

Which coincidentally ( ) is my track du jour. On America's latest album (their first in yonks) is a delightfully catchy little ditty called Work To Do, which includes the incredibly appropriate lyrics for today's lung-busting and embarassingly difficult hill climb:

Well it didn’t go down quite the way we planned it,
You made mistakes, took some things for granted,
We’ve come this far we’ve got to see it through,

And if we’re gonna make it baby,
If we’re gonna make it baby,
We’ve still got some work to do.


Yup. A rough but entirely uphill 5km kicked off my Point to Pinnacle campaign this morning. For the moment I'm ignoring speed and time and concentrating instead on just covering some territory with an emphasis on hills. If I'm to tackle this mountain in November I have to get times and pace out of my head and fully focus on altitude, working up to a half marathon at an average 6% gradient.

Hence the appropriateness of the song from America. I really do still have a helluva lot of work to do.

But I've started.

Aaargh - Frankie's eaten my incense again ... bad hyena! :mad:

[El Gordo]

Excellent news.

The lyric that came into my head was I'm so tired of crying -- I'm on the road again, from that great old Canned Heat tune.

We've both had/are having bad patches -- you worse than me perhaps. But remember -- running is the answer. It really is.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Golly. Two runs in two days. That hasn't happened for a while...

Keep this to yourself, but my treadmill has a special, classified function that has recently been outlawed by international treaty because it circumvents several UN charters concerning human rights. It's called the Mountain Program and is sublime in its cruelty and monstrous in its ability to impart massive pain and suffering. That I willingly partook of its peculiarly exquisite torture this afternoon suggests manic sadism on the part of the manufacturer, and mental illness on mine.

It was mercifully only half an hour, but I believe in that time I increased my lung capacity to that of a large brontosaurus and ascended the equivalent of three Mount Everests, not to mention enduring enough back pain to fell Genghis Khan's warrior hordes.

It hurt.

But strangely, I now feel really really really good.

Bring on dat mountain.


The object of the Point to Pinnacle. You can see (just) the road running up the side like a knife slash.

Oh, and track du jour? Motley Crue's Kick Start My Heart. Bloody appropriate - it damn near burst through my rib cage for much of the run. :o

[marathondan]

Now, go out and find that one true art form, convincing yourself that you have found the right one and that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong. Let’s further suppose for the sake of argument that the one true art form is rockabilly.

Now go and convince everyone who disagrees with you that you are correct.

Let me know how you get on.

I'm a big fan of the blog of Scott Adams (the Dilbert cartoonist) - I think the cartoons are only semi-amusing, but he's fascinating on human nature, among other things. Your challenge could have come straight from one of his posts.

[glaconman]

The latest Marcus Brigstocke contribution on The Now Show is well worth a listen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/nowshow.shtml

:RFLMAO:

[Sweder]

Great stuff MLCMan.
Now there's a hill worth running up
I'm doing that with you one of these days.
That's a promise.

[El Gordo]

The latest Marcus Brigstocke contribution on The Now Show is well worth a listen:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/nowshow.shtml

:RFLMAO:

If that's his piece on religion you mean, wow, I heard it at the time and thought how brilliant it was. I put it on my list of things to do -- try to extract it somehow and make an MP3 of it. I'll see if I can get it done while the episode is still up there. Need to investigate how to do it.

But it really is superb. People should try to get to hear it. It's in the middle of the episode somewhere. It was life affirming.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

If that's his piece on religion you mean, wow, I heard it at the time and thought how brilliant it was. I put it on my list of things to do -- try to extract it somehow and make an MP3 of it. I'll see if I can get it done while the episode is still up there. Need to investigate how to do it.

It's already done. You can hear or download the relevant bit here.