Christmas Wine Selection

[Ian]

I apologise for this thread having little or no mention of exercise, but;
For the first time in eleven years I am cooking a turkey for Christmas Day lunch. To celebrate this momentous deviation from previous years, I have invited my parents to join us.

The question that arises is, what wine to drink?

I am also on the look out for a mid-price Champagne that will kick off the day, after my five mile run, of course.

Finally, if anyone has a good recipe for stuffing, I would love to see it.

To keep me on the straight and narrow, I will be running first thing in the morning, before chaos reigns.

[El Gordo]

Hi Ian.

At last, an important topic of conversation.

It's a personal view, but I find that people get too wound up by what to drink with what. For a start, a lot of people will drink wine only on these special occasions, and for those, I'd say the best thing is to give them what they like. In the case of my own parents, that's probably some bland medium German white. Up to the 50s and 60s, it wasn't uncommon for people to choose to drink Sauternes and Barsac, or other wines we now firmly classify as dessert wines - so a lot of this is just fashion.

A more measured answer: turkey isn't a particularly strong flavoured meat so it's probably not going to clash violently with anything. If you're having a starter, along with some standard dry white like a Loire Sauvignon or Italian, there would be nothing wrong with people continuing with that through the main course. Or you might want to switch to a meatier white like a New World oaky Chardonnay. For reds, you might be best going for something not too pungent, that may overwhelm the turkey. What about a decent single village Beaujolais? Fleurie, Morgon, Julenas or similar. Or a lighter style Cotes du Rhone?

I was in Waitrose this morning and noticed they're knocking out Torres Gran Sangredetoro 2000 for only about £5.50. I love the Torres wines, and this is about £2 less than the normal price. Personally, I wouldn't serve it a lunch though. A bit heavy.

As for Champagne, well unless I was drinking it all myself, or sharing it with another enthusiast, I wouldn't go overboard. My favourite standard Champagne is probably Louis Roederer but for family swilling I'd settle for Waitrose or Sainsbury's own label, or even a decent Cava for half the price.

I've got a friend who's a Master of Wine. I recently advised him on running shoes, so I'll ask him to drop by here and return the favour.

Can't help with the stuffing I'm afraid. Mine comes out of a packet, and people are too polite to complain.

Andy

[Ian]

I knew you would come up trumps Andy.

I think my tactic will be to hit them with a decent Champagne to kick off with and then follow up with a New Zealand sauvignon through the starter (Smoked salmon with asparagus mousse). I might even consider a Zinfandel with turkey, although there is a rumour that a decent Chateau Musar sits comfortably with this.

I will definitely follow up on the advice about the Torres. I have enjoyed these in the past and might just have to have one in for Christmas night when I can stick my feet up in front of the fire and savour it.

I'm glad to see we avoided the dessert wines. Although I have enjoyed the odd sip of an Orange Muscat and Flora or Beaumes de Venise, I am not too keen, and would prefer to move straight on to Port. Pudding can wait for another day and I'll just bring out the cheese board.

[Pollard]

Ian,

Sounds great....can i come? and i'm not bothered about the 5 mile run either.

Chris.

[Seafront Plodder]

Sod the parents, they can come next year. I think a Runningcommentary Christmas bash around your place is on the cards Ian.

Living on the coast, I almost always hop over to France to stock up, if fact I'm off the end of next week!. €12 will get a very good chablis or sancerre, my choice for xmas day wine. I know next to bugger all about champagne though.

As for stuffing, I have tried making my own but it always ends up stodgy. Now I buy the stuff and add extra bits like fresh sage, zest of orange and garlic.

I'm off now as I've just decided this thread would not look out of place at the local WI, and I want no part of it.

Andy.

[El Gordo]

Ah, another Ch Musar fan! Actually I've not drunk this great Lebanese wine for a few years now, since I worked in the wine trade, but it was always a great favourite.

However, hmmm, personally I probably wouldn't consider serving Musar with Christmas dinner. Main 3 reasons: 1) it usually throws a pretty heavy sediment, so needs decanting. This might be a bit of a nuisance when you've got a hundred other things to deal with, 2) although it varies from year to year, the alcohol level of Musar can be pretty high (up to 14% if I recall rightly). This is a bit potent for lunchtime, and most importantly, 3) it's just too good/too expensive to waste on other people.

I've not had a lot of Zinfandel experience but again they tend to pretty big wines, so might be more suited to Christmas evening with a lump of Stilton, than lunchtime.

But as I said, I don't think turkey is too demanding, so serve up what you like rather than agonise too much about what might or might not work well.

Andy

[Liz]

I have a great stuffing recipe - it's my mother's. She gave me, my brother and sister each a recipe book last Christmas containing all her recipes from 40 years of cooking that we don't have in other books. It's a fabulous present and also saves her from a lot of phone calls of the "how do you make this"? variety.

1/2- 3/4 pt white breadcrumbs
1 onion, finely chopped
2 sticks celery, finely chopped
4-6 sage leaves, chopped very fine
2 tablespoons chopped parsley
salt and pepper
butter or vegetable oil

Soften the onion gently in fat until golden. Mix with all the other ingredients. Add a little water to help the mixture cohere, but don't make it wet. These days my mother cooks it in a covered dish with a few dots of butter on top, rather than inside the bird.

Variations:
1. Use thyme instead of sage
2. Add grated lemon rind and bind with the juice - good with chicken
3. Add a few ounces of mushrooms, sliced and softened in butter.
4. Add chicken liver cut up small
5. Add lots more herbs.

The one time that I've been stuck in the US for Christmas, I had friends over and made both the lemon and mushroom stuffings. They were extremely well received - it's 7 in the morning here and I'm now starting to get hungry!

Sorry about this SP!

[Ian]

I will give these recipes a trial run before the big day to make sure I get it right. They sound great, thanks Liz.

[Seafront Plodder]

He died almost 15 years ago, and one of the things I inherited from him was his watch. Or to put it more accurately, his 'timepiece', or 'chronometer'. It is a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, and although this rolex has never been what could be called an 'everyday' watch, it has been lately.

My mere mortals watch is back at the manufacturers at the moment having a new battery fitted. Waterproof to 100' it has to be sent back to be re-sealed, otherwise I can never go scuba diving with it again. (Not that I ever have but the possibility is there).

I went out on my first run tonight since completing Dublin almost a month ago. I wasn't too sure how it would go after the lay-off, so rather than a circular route from home, I drove down to the seafront and plodded up and down there, completing a comfortable 5 miles. Half way through the run I realised I still had dad's watch on! So there am I, running along in the pitch black, wearing a chronometer on my wrist that would cost about the same to replace as a small hatchback! I won't make that mistake again. I don't know why I decided to post that, other than that it's just happened. I meant to ask about wine.

Off to France on a golf jolly next week, and we usually make time to stop at the hypermarket to stock up. My partner knows sod all but usually manages to spout some pretentious guff about which wine I should buy (although I usually just go by price), but as Ian had kicked this thread off I thought I'd get some honest advice here.

You can tell from my previous post that I'm no connor sewer, although I know what I like when I've tried it. Open-some-cheap-crappy-red-and-by-the-second-bottle-it's-drinkable; that's more my style.

Any suggestions for French wines? I shall probably come back with around 4 cases of assorted stuff.

Cheers

Andy.

[El Gordo]

Fantastic first sentence, SP. As early as the first full-stop, I knew I'd have to reply. I'm not being sarcastic, and I give full respect to the memory of your Dad.

Well done too on the first run. I'm in a shocking situation, where I did my Brighton race on Sunday, but seem to have lost all interest in both running and writing about it.

As for more interesting things eg suggestions for French wine... Hmm, well, I can only air some very personal prejudices, but here goes:

The greatest wines I've ever drunk have been from Bordeaux and Burgundy but these tend to be way too expensive to bother with.

In a nutshell, I LOVE Rhone wines and good Southern French like Fitou and decent single domain wines from Roussillon and Corbieres and Provence. If you can find any of these southern wines from 1998, snap them up.

Other personal favourites include decent single-village Beaujolais like Fleurie, Morgon, St Amour, Julienas etc. These are lighter in style, and not so 'serious', but still quite lovely.

Depends really on what you like.

Where's Richard? This is my Master of Wine mate who owes me a favour.....

He'll be along soon [gulp], and can help you further, SP.

Regards,

Andy

[Nigel]

Ah oui, the unpretentious and undervalued southern French reds.

Côtes du Ventoux could make a good value Christmas cracker, Ian. Grown on the limestone slopes of Mont Ventoux (of Tour de France and Tom Simpson fame), the wines flow here from vignobles just a short tempo run from fabulous Côtes du Rhones like the mighty Gigondas, but come at less than half the price. The key is the common geology but less expensive viticultural postcode.

Perhaps my proudest professional moment was when I once acted as the external examiner for a PhD on the geology of St Chinian. I am pleased to report this as another much under-rated area with excellently scrubby and often carbonate soils on the margins of the Montpellier plain. The sublime best of the reds combine the weight of a Cote de Provence, with something of the richness of the Côte du Rhone and the peppery fire of the Languedoc. I have been subjecting the area to scrupulous re-testing ever since, and though not as cheap as it once was, St Chinian is still excellent value.

For those with more than a passing interest in the landscape of wine, there is a wonderfully colourful and quirky geologists' wine bible by the aptly-named Charles Pomerol "The Wines and Winelands of France, Geological Journeys." (1989).

For a shorter summary you could try: http://users.skynet.be/ougseurope/wine.htm

with more reading and fine pictures at: http://www.brookes.ac.uk/geology/wine/wine.html

[Ian]

Not only do I now have a wonderful selection of wines to choose from, but I also have conversational topics sorted out too.

My father is a well travelled man, but I will put money on him not knowing quite as much as I do now about these regions.

many thanks everyone.

[Bouzy]

I have a feeling that I must be the wino that Andy has been alluding to....... and apologise for taking a few days to come to.

good reasonably priced Champagnes include the Tesco 1er Cru or, if you don't want a supermarket brand, try Billecart Salmon Brut NV from Oddbins - lovely stuff. Don't know how patriotic you are, but Waitrose also stock an English Sparkling wine called Ridgeview from Sussex - may be just over £15, but I would back it against most Champagnes of that price.

for turkey, I am afraid I am rather hooked on Pinot Noir and so would not look further than that. hard to find a decently priced red Burgundy, although Waitrose again normally have some good ones. Possibly a good Beaujolais, like Louis Jadot Moulin a Vent Chateau des jacques.

Alternatively, try a new world Pinot noir, maybe from Chile (Cono Sur) or New Zealand (Montana Reserve). A surprisingly good source is actually Romania - one may not expect much at under £6, but the Prahova Valley Pinot Noirs are really good.

Agree with all the comments about Rhone and the South of France. It must sound like a Waitrose testimonial, but they are a wonderful source of good reds from this region too. Try the Chateau Pech-Latt or Saint Joseph from Cave de St Desirat.

Happy Drinking!
Richard

[El Gordo]

Thanks Richard. Glad I didnt make a total fool of myself.

Im writing this from Bilbao, on the second day of a Rioja fest. Explains why the punctuation is a bit odd. I mean the foreign keyboard, not the Rioja. That said, I watched the England World Cup win on some French TV channel in the hotel this morning, and gulped back most of a celebratory bottle at lunchtime an hour or so later, so its been a slightly giddy day.

Hurrah for England! Hurrah for the fermented grape!

Must get back to the bar where one of those gargantuan Spanish G & Ts awaits.

Cheers

Andy

[Ian]

Thanks to all the advice here, I think my mind is made up. Tesco's for the Champers, and then it will be New Zealand all the way with a Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir. That way we can toast my brother at the same time, who lives out in NZ and will be enjoying a Christmas lunch on the beach.

Not long now...