Hi All

(I emailed this message to most regular users, but in case you've not received it....)

For reasons that aren’t completely clear to me, I’ve had a drastic change of sentiment towards runningcommentary in recent weeks. I explained previously that I’d felt a little anxious about privacy, triggered by a recent job application. That was true, but I think the job application thing was really just the thing that finally pushed me over a line I’d been approaching for some time — with all the alacrity of one of my lacklustre marathons, one might say. I finally got there.

I’m in a quandary, and need some help.

When I saw a few of the chaps recently (Sweder, Nigel, Moyleman, Rog) we talked about starting a sort of online running club. What do people think about this? I like the idea. It would enable us to keep the forum going, and perhaps the site.

I said this before, but I’ve become increasingly conscious of the gap between what the site started out as, and what it has become.

Here are some random possibilities:

— that we just keep the forum and abandon the wider website

— that we keep the forum and website but change the focus in some way. I quite like the idea of a running club approach, with perhaps a focus on race reports/pictures/fixtures etc

— er…?

As you can see, I haven’t got very far in my wondering.

Can I ask for thoughts on this please?

If the running club idea is popular, we need a name. We could stick with runningcommentary, or go for a change. Just an idea, but I own the domain name runningtotal.com, for instance. If anyone has a better idea for names, or what to do with the site, please circulate your thoughts.

Andy

PS My running is also buggered at the moment but that’s a side issue. One thing at a time….

Definitely like the idea of the running club.
I've been putting 'Running Commentary' in my recent race applications under 'club' anyway. It doesn't get me the affiliated rate, but it makes me feel like I have a home (which in running terms I do - its here).

Not sure on a name, but we have a logo - I love the purple foot! Would look great on a black vest [SIZE="1"]yadda yadda yadda . . .[/SIZE]

I recall someone mentioned The Purple Foot Running Club. I'm sure some of the more gifted citizens of Planet Foot can come up with much better . . .

I also liked The Almeria Running Club, but that holds its own problems. Still nicely obscure to 'outsiders' though . . .

As for the site I really like the forum as it is - I fear change! But can see why you want to change the 'front page' now that you've opened a diary. A 'front page' was what I had in mind; a sort of gateway to the forum, race reports, picture galleries . . . more like a traditional corporate website if you like, or a magazine cover. We could come up with a nice set of graphics (there must be some half-decent photos of our illustrious members somewhere . . . ) to make the 'cover', with hot links to sections of the site such as training diaries, race reports, equipment reviews, forthcoming races . . . whatever. To be clear, this would not be a constantly changing feature of the site - more a graphic-rich static entry point offering a standard introduction to (new name) and inviting people in the peruse the galleries.

It sounds like I'm advocating a rival to RW but I'm really not. We have all these things anyway, its just a case of presentation, of having a navigatable portal that explains what we're about and leads visitors into the site in an informed way.

Well, it's a start . . . :o

Thanks Sweder, that's a good positive start.

I quite like "Purple Foot" too, though there are a couple of wine businesses that have hit on the same idea. (If you're wondering why wine?, think of the traditional art of treading grapes with bare feet). It's not a big thing perhaps, except that purplefoot.com, .net, and .co.uk are all taken. Good name though.

(Purplefootrunningclub/Purplefootrunners/PurpleFootRC).com are all available.

Almeria Running Club is a bit obscure, I'd argue, even if Almeria could remain the spiritual home. A bit like Mecca for Moslems, perhaps it should be an at-least once-in-a-lifetime commitment, to do the Almeria Half, followed by some complex initiation ceremony at Molly Malone's and the Bullfighter's Bar, featuring Guinness and Rioja.

Man, I'm warming to my theme here....

I like the idea of the general site along with the forum. I guess part of my recent semi-crisis is that I feel a crushing sense of duty to change stuff, when I just don't have the appetite for it these days. If we had a reasonably static basic website, with added pictures and race reports, that could be a good start.

One quite big question I've wrestled with: what is it that we have in common? Or do we need to have anything in common, apart from a plodacious spirit? Most people here seem to write pretty well, for instance. And like beer.

Any other thoughts from elsewhere?

Andy,

To me - and already noted by many others - the forum is already a running club. All that's missing is the club vest and the discounted race entry. It occurred to me recently that the latter would be the biggest benefit that forming a running club would confer!

Also it's clear that the forum is a huge part of the site. I think it's fair to say that some of the forum diaries are almost as good as your front-page blog. So there is a case for you moving your diary to the forum and using the front page for wider issues. Incidentally, if that was the case, then perhaps the front page should show some kind of "most recent post" view, to direct visitors to the most prolific diarists (which would of course include you... in about third place!).

I like the idea of focus on races. Perhaps it could be structured to list upcoming races, who's entered, a link to their preparation (forum thread) and then eventually list results, link to race reports and to photos.

As for club name, runningcommentary works well for the website, but sounds a bit odd for a club. But then again, to me odd is exactly what you should be aiming for. I would even include the .net on the end - anyone sees that at a race and they immediately know it's web-based. And the name is appropriate - our primary focus is providing a commentary on our running. Runningtotal doesn't grab me, and in fact I've only just got the pun some 15 minutes after reading it.

So in summary:
- actual running club - yes
- race / club focus for site - yes
- bring forum to the forefront of the site - yes
- club name - ain't broke so don't fix it

Dan

PS - Sweder - purple on white, surely. In purple on black you'd look like some kind of 80s metal fan... Oh, I see now.

Dan -- thank you.

Perhaps I'm battering myself a bit at the moment, but you've made me feel better.

You say:

Also it's clear that the forum is a huge part of the site. I think it's fair to say that some of the forum diaries are almost as good as your front-page blog.

As a luvvie would say: "Oh, but that's too kind...." except that in my case, I actually mean it, and am proud to say so. There are a number of people on this site who write well, and certainly better than me.

When Nigel left us, I was disappointed, but I understood what that was about because we talked about it -- and of course we're still mates. Sweder remains the sort of runner/writer we should all aspire to. Great attitude: to both road and story.

I genuinely feel that my own running writing has become stale. I say this while scratching my head, rather than wiping away a tear. In other words, I feel I need to reposition things and make it all even better, rather than 'call the whole thing off'.

No point in false modesty -- I know that I've written some decent stuff in the past, but I feel empty and infertile at the moment. There are a few things rattling round inside o'me as we speak, but I need more than that. I need to be moist and dense, like the victorious Pangbourne bangers last Saturday evening (he said controversially ).

Anyway, good post. And thanks for putting the case for retaining the name.

The sentimental side of me collapses in front of you, slobbering over your purple feet....

Purple feet...?

Yeah, here's some more forthrightness from the rude one in exile...

I've yet to see another running web site anything like RC. I was attracted to RC because it was developed (I nearly said "run") by an average bloke who clearly could write very well but wasn't trying to sell me anything; he wasn't trying to tell anyone how to run, and wasn't doing it for egotistical reasons. He was just a bloke I could relate to, who happened to equally enjoy running and writing about his running. Writing very, very well I must add. That makes RC unique.

Until now, RC has always had Andy as the focus. There he was on the front page, and if you related to Andy, you would most likely fit in with the rest. If we do away with the front page however, this site will change over time. It will mutate in various ways as different peripheral sections become more popular and attract different people to the site. Andy has always been the filter - if you can relate to a middle aged, slowish marathon runner who loved his food and beer and can write bloody well, then you're in. Others disqualified themselves by moving on elsewhere.

Sweder is right to fear change in this case. I do too. But it's already happening, which is perhaps why it was time for Andy to move off the front page anyhow. With the JDRF, Jog Shop Joggers and Habbakuk sections of the forum taking on their own life, you can see how this might all change over time regardless of what happens now. We've gone from a one-room clubhouse where people who didn't like the look of us (or more particularly, didn't like the look of Andy ) moved on, to now being a multiple-roomed clubhouse where people are more likely to find something they like and are directly invited to certain sections without having to come in the front door.

In that sense, it's pointless becoming a running club. The Habakkuks are already a running club. The JDRF's already have their special focus. You're only really talking about those few of us who are responding here in this little bit of the site. Really, RC is already becoming a simple meeting place for loosely associated runners each with a different focus.

But we all want something to belong to. I too, already think of RC as "my" running club. But I wouldn't put "RunningCommentary.net" on my running singlets - it's too long for one thing.

Personally, if we're going to have a club name, I'd prefer the Beer-Swilling Fat Bastards Running Club but I doubt people like Ana or suzieq would relate to it somehow... yeah, maybe Purple Foot is OK if you want to go down that road.

I'm not sure what else to say. I think I'll go for a run and agonise over it some more.

Nah, I've been for my run and I still think Beer Swilling Fat Bastards is a better name for a club (of any kind) than Purple Foot which is rather dull, I think.

Whatever. Never let it be said I was a fussy person. I'll go with the flow... which probably doesn't help much.

Well I am on the far side of the planet! And it's Thursday. I never could think straight on Thursdays. No hang on... it's Saturday...

Scrap that.

Sorry.





Has anyone seen my hyena?

Well, well, well . . . the most diverse running collective on the planet is already attracting, well, a diverse collection of views. Great stuff. Not sure how much closer we are but hey, we're moving. Somewhere.

Beer Swilling Fat Bastards . . . BSFB . . . it could work. As for Suzie and Ana, I could see tham objecting to the fat part, sure Hyena eh? And there I was tarring all Aussies with the 'sheep shagger' brush . . .

Hey Dan, it has to be purple on black dude. Andy rocked up last weekend in a Reading Half vest of similar design and, without casting aspursions in any particular direction, the combo has a certain slendering effect which many of us would be more than happy with :o

I'm now somewhat swayed by Mr MLCM. After all, what extra would we gain from expanding into an official club?

1. Two quid off race entry fees
2. A club vest

As mentioned, the financial aspect is about the best reason I can think of, and in fact leads to a sort of anti-club mentality (RunningCommentary - motto: "Two quid off!").

As for the club vest, despite the alluring mental image of Sweder in purple and black lycra , I'm not that keen on groups of people wearing herd uniforms (got that out of my system years ago by studying at a sporty university), nor am I keen on collecting extra paraphenalia for a pure and simple sport like running.

I still like the idea of a front page highlighting the diverse achiements of all the group though. Also I like Sweder's policy of entering "RunningCommentary.net" as one's club on entry forms - even if it isn't a real club.

Dear Andy,
Counts on me for ‘Beer Swilling Fat Bastards Club’ or any decision you will ever take regarding RC. Any choice you should make will be Ok. Just other propositions, more commercial for foreigners:
RCdreamersClub
Miraclemile.com
runningallworldaround.com
beer&run.com
SPandothersmighties.com
Beeraddicts.com
Sleepersandfats.com
Postracesystems.com
RunnersAnonimous.com
Theanswerisblowin’inthewind.com

Well, well, 'The Purple Foot Running Club' is really class and nice. I like it

More for the names pot:

SwigNRun
Rafferty's Rehydration Specialists
R C Racers
Keep The Light On Runners
Bacchus
Liber8 Global Running Collective
Hillrunners N Hellraisers

I still like the idea of a virtual running club with a clubhouse in cyberspace. I'm a member of a virtual Golf Club - the Mayfield Golfing Society; MGS members benefit from collective bargaining for their infamous Spring and Autumn tours. It may be that such benefits are limited for a running club, but I'm not sure fiscal advantage was ever the intention here.

The vest idea formed because we already have a rather fetching if not eye-catching logo (often a struggle for newly-formed collectives). Of course any liveried lycra would not be compulsory, though I rather like the thought of a bunch of us lined up in Almería in our RC gear. It would get us some attention at a serious event such as the Almería Half

Sweder Wrote:...with hot links to sections of the site such as training diaries, race reports, equipment reviews, forthcoming races . . . whatever.

And a recipe section of course. We have a selection of world-class carb-loaders and rehydration specialists here.

'Molly Malone's Running Club' and even 'Buena Cerveza Running Club' suggest themselves. 'Search for the Start Line Running Club' would work as well.

Those ideas are almost there, but not quite.

So how about 'Las Ramblas' ?

Succinct references to the spiritual home, the eternal uphill struggle, and even the diverse nature of the writing. And all in just two words - that's at least 2,998 less than I usually manage ...

Hey . . . I like Las Ramblas.
The name I mean, as well as that wee bump in the Almería half.
Not sure if ramblas dot net/ com/ org is available but if it is, or even lasramblas dot com . . . we should snap it up.

Interesting train of thought but, I dunno, Las Ramblas etc aren't quite right for me. I don't think it's wise to be Almeria-centric. There are plenty of people here who've no connection with the place.

What about "the running club"?

Or Ana's idea: SPandothersmighties.com.

I like that one.

Andy Wrote:I don't think it's wise to be Almeria-centric. There are plenty of people here who've no connection with the place.

Well then, they should get a connection!
Almería remains our spiritual home in the real world and as a running club it's the only place (apart from Brighton) that three or more of us have met up regularly to take part in a race. Got me thinking - that and the fact Niguel had suggested it - that Spanish Strollers might be nice - we'd even have our own song Mink DeVille anyone?
Hey Rosita! Donde vas con mi carro Rosita?

Lets face it, when it comes to choosing a name democracy sucks.
Opinions are like, well, you've heard that one - everybody has one.
Lets get a shortlist of five up and find some acceptable way to vote - it's the only way. Start by having everyone send you their own top choice via e-mail by a certain date. The top five get published and we go to the polls.

Or we could just keep kicking the names around for a few more years.
That seems more in vogue in these parts

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]PS: I'm not too hot at this stuff but 'Ramblas.org' appears to be available . . .
OK I'll get me coat . . . [/COLOR]

ramblas.org isn't available, unfortunately.

For anyone who wants to make enquiries about domain names, try Easily.

I take the hint about decision-making but I'd like to mull it over just a little more.

How about Virtual Runners? virtualrunners.com is available.

Definition of virtual (American Heritage Dictionary):



[INDENT]1. Existing in the mind, especially as a product of the imagination. [/INDENT][INDENT]
2. Computer created, simulated, or carried on by means of a computer or computer network: virtual conversations in a chatroom.


[/INDENT]#1 certainly applies to the athleticism and running routines of many of us. #2 needs no comment.

Shades of Hal Higdon's "V-team" admittedly, where the V I think stood for virtual, but hey, Hal and I go way back.


Edited to add:

I just reread all the previous comments. Good contribution from MLCM which I was too rude to acknowledge at the time. (I was going through my Dark Period back then...) There seems to be a feeling that we don't want/need to be a club in the formal sense, but are really just looking for a name as a kind of flag to glance up at from time to time, and to help give us a web identity. I'm OK with that. I must say I'm not that inspired by all the bureaucracy that usually surrounds 'proper clubs' i.e. the need to have roles and responsibilities. We're all too anarchic for that, surely.

Someone controversially suggested... runningcommentary, which might just do if we're not looking for a proper club name. So these are my latest suggestions -- runningcommentary and virtualrunners.com. A little anaemic admittedly, compared with Las Ramblas and Spanish Strollers. I don't dislike the latter suggestions incidentally, but was just wondering if this would put people off. On the other hand, perhaps we want to put off the sort of people who would be put off by names like this?

I'll just mention in passing that the software used for this forum, vBulletin, is extremely flexible and customisable. So we could think in terms of having the forum on the front page but with all the other stuff too. Or certainly links to them. When I get a chance later, I'll post some examples. .

Anyway, I'll invite a few more comments. In the meantime, must get back to work

The name game's a wizard wheeze but there really is nothing wrong with RunningCommentary as a handle. I agree (with MLCMan) that we don't need the full-blown running club experience. I guess it's more a case of, if we're going to go through changes in terms of our virtual clubhouse, it's a good time to consider alternative names.

I'd be really interested in seeing what can be done with the 'doorway' - or front page if you will. There's where the true excitement lays. I think it's important to take the pressure/ onus off Andy in terms of day-to-day management/ contributions, so a page that refreshes through individual contributions (such as taking the header of new posts in a 'headline' type format) would work. We can include generic info/ graphics about RC - how and why, when and where, where homage to Almería et al can be paid.

Not sure about others but I see the above as the most important aspect of any change. For the site to prosper we all need the freedom to write or not - or run or not - as the mood/ life takes us. This way the site remains organic, not forced or contrived or resting on any one set of shoulders.

I get really hacked off with my own writing on here - like I am at the moment. It gets stale and dull, and this is compounded if/ when one feels 'obliged' to write something. Changes along the lines we're talking about leave us free as members to do bugger all for a week or two if that's how we feel; the site will still be fun to visit for newbies and oldies alike. Perhaps live feeds from other sites (latest race news or something) that updates daily/ weekly would help.

OK, I've had too much coffee and I'm rambling now.
I'm heading off for a few weeks and opportunities to post will be limited at best. Mrs S considers a true break (for me at least) includes no laptop - gibber, twitch . . .
Hopefully I can recharge my creative writing batteries as well as my creaking body.

See you anon.

Sweder Wrote:I'm heading off for a few weeks and opportunities to post will be limited at best. Mrs S considers a true break (for me at least) includes no laptop - gibber, twitch . . .
See you anon.

A f-few w-w-weeks...??



Don't forget les cafés des Intrewebs

Andy Wrote:ramblas.org isn't available, unfortunately.

Fortunately, let me say. I know that "ramblas" has an special meaning for you, but it sounds terrible for an spaniard.

I believe that for all of us RC will be allways our name.