Off Topic for the english teacher

[Seafront Plodder]

Antonio, can you punctuate the following sentence so that it's grammatically correct.

(No helping from anyone who knows....)

Tom when Bill had had had had had had had had had had had the teachers approval

[Antonio247]

Hello, Andy

The more I think about the sentence, the less I guess what it is all about, especially so many "had". Perhaps we could insert a comma (,)between Tom and when and add a ´in "teacher´s approval" but I think there must be another better reason. I´m looking forward to having the right answer, Andy.

This reminds me of another word game. I´m sure you´ll all soon find the right answer but my students find it difficult to understand it.

A man went into a restaurant and told the waiter he wanted to have lunch. He asked for the first course and when the waiter brought it, he didn´t like it and didn´t have anything. Then, the waiter brought the second course but he didn´t like it either. So, he left the dish full. Later, the waiter brought the dessert but the customer didn´t like it either and didn´t eat anything at all. Then, when the waiter brought the bill, the man wrote down in it "I004I80". Then, he left the restaurant without paying anything. What does that figure stand for?

The first one who gives the right answer will get a 2004 Almería half marathon T-shirt.

Good luck!
Antonio

[Seafront Plodder]

errr........

I owe nothing for I ate nothing?

Could it be?

Back to your teaser, think of the sentence in terms of an english teacher teaching his pupils the correct use of certain elements of grammar.

i.e. Which is correct - 'I had a lot to eat' or 'I had had a lot to eat'?

A.

[Antonio247]

Congratulations, Andy! You´ve won Almería T-shirt. I´ll give it to you when we meet in the UK or in Spain. By the way, which size do you need?

Well, as far as your teaser is concerned, perhaps you only need one "had". Am I right or not?

Bye for now

Antonio

[El Gordo]

Struggling on your "hads", SP.

Is it some trick where the real answer is putting an apostrophe in "teachers"? Other than that, the best I can come up with is someone with a severe stutter. While you're deciding when to put us out of our misery....

I know a sentence containing: and and and and and.

[El Gordo]

Got it! Admittedly with the help of a colleague.

A small complaint though. The question really should have been: "Can you punctuate the following, so that it's gramatically correct?"

There's a subtle difference there, that may give a clue to anyone still struggling.

Andy

[Griff]

Originally posted by andy

"Can you punctuate the following, so that it's gramatically correct?"

Sorry to split hairs; but should we not get our spelling right when trying to impress our Spanish friend? There should be a double "m" in "gramatically".

Anyway, even though I got diverted by the orthography of the posting, I am still stumped.

Here's looking forward to the solution!

Rgds
Griff
(Grammar School Old Boy & Part-time Pedant)

[Seafront Plodder]

Ok, assume you are an english teacher , and you have two pupils, Tom and Bill.

Now when constructing the sentence "I had a lot to eat", it could also be written as ...."I had had a lot to eat", depending on the context.

So, assume Tom had used 'had' in his sentence, and Bill had used 'had had' in his, the teacher may wish to offer an opinion as to which version had had his/her approval.

So....

[El Gordo]

Originally posted by Griff
Sorry to split hairs; but should we not get our spelling right when trying to impress our Spanish friend? There should be a double "m" in "gramatically".

Impress our Spanish friend? More like scare him off...

But, er, yes, OK, double m, mumble, typo rather than bad spelling, mumble, mumble. Oh God. Can life get any worse than this?

But at least I cracked SP's had-torture. And yes, the answer makes sense. As in real, proper sense.

[Seafront Plodder]

Originally posted by Seafront Plodder
Ok, assume you are an english teacher , and you have two pupils, Tom and Bill.

Now when constructing the sentence "I had a lot to eat", it could also be written as ...."I had had a lot to eat", depending on the context.

So, assume Tom had used 'had' in his sentence, and Bill had used 'had had' in his, the teacher may wish to offer an opinion as to which version had had his/her approval.

So....

Tom, when Bill had had had, had had had had. Had had, had had the teacher's approval!

Ok, so it's two sentences. Or I suppose you could get away with a colon in there.

[El Gordo]

I think this punctuaiton would make it a bit clearer:

Tom, when Bill had had "had", had had "had had".

"Had had", had had the teacher's approval.

I've been going round reciting this to people. Sad I know, but I like it....

Andy

[Antonio247]

Well, I think I´d never have guessed the right answer. I´m afraid I´ve failed my exam. It was too difficult for me. After reading it several times, I can see the meaning of the whole sentence and I realise that there´s a main sentence referred to Tom and the subordinate clause is referred to Bill. I´ll ask my students if they can punctuate that sentence to show them the importance of punctuation.

Thank you very much for this teaser, Andy (Seafront Plodder). It´s helped me to use my neurons although unsuccessfully.

Why don´t you tell us your sentence with "and and and and and", Andy ( Running Commentary)?

Antonio

[El Gordo]

Antonio,

Don't worry about not getting the "had" question. Very few English people would have solved it. If you're still unsure, let me know, and I'll explain it in a different way. If I were you, I wouldn't try it on your students. It's an advanced problem, and I suspect it would cause more confusion and frustration than enlightenment. Much better to keep your students to the normal stuff.

I'll explain the "and" one in a moment.

Regards

Andy

[Antonio247]

Thank you, Andy. I think I´ve understood the teaser. I agree with you. Most students would find it discouraging. I´d rather give the sentence to my colleagues at the English Department to make them think.

Regards

Antonio

[El Gordo]

The owner of a pub, The Coach and Horses, decides he needs a new sign. So he hires a signwriter, and lets him get on with it.

In a while, he goes outside to inspect the man's work and finds that he's written "Coachandhorses", without any spaces.

You've done it wrong, he says.

What's wrong?

There should be a space between "Coach" and "and" and "and" and "Horses..."

[Antonio247]

Oh, yes, Andy. It´s very amusing and easy to understand due to the inverted commas.

I´m glad you´ve started to run again and you´re eager to start your marathon programme.

Good luck, Andy.


Regards

Antonio

[Seafront Plodder]

What does this translate to?

un gilipollas integral

I do have a reason for asking...

[Antonio247]

It could be translated as " a complete idiot", Andy. I expect you don´t mean me. How did you get that expression? Are you studying Spanish?

I hope we can meet some day to give you Almería half marathon T-shirt that you won by being the first to give the right answer to the question I asked.

Regards,

Antonio

[Seafront Plodder]

I'm not learning spanish.

See this..................

MADRID -- Tony Blair has been called "a complete dickhead" by a leading Spanish politician live on television. The comment was made by Jose Bono, one of the three most powerful figures in the Socialist Party. His remarks were not intended to be heard, but were recorded by a television team while he was talking to Joaquin Almunia, a former Socialist leader.

Mr Bono said: "Hey, and our colleague Blair? He's a complete dickhead (un gilipollas integral). He's an imbecile."

The comments contrast with the Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar's carefully cultivated friendship with Mr Blair and will embarrass the Socialists.

The party is irritated by Mr Blair's friendship with Mr Aznar and dislikes the resulting Anglo-Spanish alliance.

There is little question that were Spain's conservatives to lose power, the London-Madrid axis would collapse.

Mr Bono, a staunch Catholic, is regarded as a potential leader of the Socialist Party of Spanish Workers.

The present leader, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, could be dropped if Mr Aznar's centre-Right People's Party wins a predicted third successive victory in the March 14 elections. That would mirror the upheaval in the Popular Party where Mr Aznar will step down at the election and make way for his successor Mariano Rajoy.

Mr Rajoy will visit Downing Street this week to cement the relationship with Britain.

© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2004.

Well really

[Nigel]

That Mr Bono's not too bad on the vocals, though.