World Cup Brazil 2014 / Weltmeisterschaft Brasilien

[Sweder]

One more thing. I've heard one or two ex-professionals suggest Roy and the FA should have coaxed England's Brave John Terry out of international 'retirement'. I don't doubt the tactical acumen. Terry enjoyed a superb season at Chelsea and would have mentored Cahill through the minefield of international tournament football. I suspect that had Terry been on the pitch Suarez would be nursing a few more bruises and England still in the mix. Yet had that happened I would have switched my allegiance to Germany.

Hmm. Maybe I do feel that club-over-country thing after all.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

I find the club-over-country phenomena to be perfectly understandable, given how your club is a weekly love affair with players you follow closely (I'm talking football codes here - cricket is less "clubby" in the main), whilst the national team is not something you are quite in so deep with. It might be that those who find such an attitude puzzling don't follow a particular team quite so closely?

[Sweder]

I'm lucky in that respect. The chances of any of my team (Lewes FC) getting distracted by international duty are fairly remote

[El Gordo]

One more thing. I've heard one or two ex-professionals suggest Roy and the FA should have coaxed England's Brave John Terry out of international 'retirement'. I don't doubt the tactical acumen. Terry enjoyed a superb season at Chelsea and would have mentored Cahill through the minefield of international tournament football. I suspect that had Terry been on the pitch Suarez would be nursing a few more bruises and England still in the mix. Yet had that happened I would have switched my allegiance to Germany.

Hmm. Maybe I do feel that club-over-country thing after all.

Ifs, buts and maybes are always part of the England post-mortem. It's easy to point the finger at one incident but the sad fact is that the whole team played less well against Uruguay than against Italy. We had a number of really good chances in both games that should have made a single defensive error irrelevant.

[Sweder]

Algeria South Korea - goalfest
USA v Him - thriller

This could just be, England blinkers cast aside, the best World Cup ever.
And we're not out of the group stages yet.
Phew!

[marathondan]

I'm not sure about that club vs country thing. The nation does go doolally whenever there's an international tournament on. Although in some ways it's as though the whole country has been swept up in a strange nationwide pantomime. Perhaps it's not that serious.

Surprised no-one has picked up on MLCMM's assertion "given the depth of talent at its disposal". That may be true in purely numerical terms - with 20 times the population of Uruguay, there should be a decent chance of unearthing some diamonds - but the country isn't exactly awash with international stars. I'm sure that the number one reason, head and shoulders above the others (sorry to use the phrases number one and head and shoulders in the same sentence) is the huge number of overseas players in the PL. No other country has a league like it. I'm not aware that any other country has national quotas, but it doesn't seem to happen in the same way elsewhere.

It should be rememebered that this is a very young England team, which was handed a tough group (as a result of a poor qualifying campaign, of course). By contrast Argentina, France and Germany should arrive in the second round feeling refreshed. England won't be the only major European team going to the airport this week - Spain and Portugal have already rearranged their flights as well, and it's quite conceivable that Italy could join them. That adds a little context.

And that odd Gerrard pep talk? I understood that was the gaffer's idea.

[Sweder]

Ifs, buts and maybes are always part of the England post-mortem. It's easy to point the finger at one incident but the sad fact is that the whole team played less well against Uruguay than against Italy. We had a number of really good chances in both games that should have made a single defensive error irrelevant.

Totally agree. I was simply observing the absurdity of fringe pundit naval-gazing. They're missing the point, that this tournament is becoming a true festival of football. The emerging nations, some of whom peeped above the parapet in Japan and Korea* are out in force. I expect the old order to regain control in the latter stages but I hope beyond all reason that we see a new winner this year.



*I didn't mention South Africa because I can't remember a thing about that tournament.

[marathondan]

We had a number of really good chances in both games that should have made a single defensive error irrelevant.

Not so sure about that. You rarely expect a team to put away every chance. I still think that a good international team should be able to get the basics right, like hanging onto the ball in the last third, and putting a head on a route one.

The odd thing is that, in general, England haveplayed better than expected.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

The odd thing is that, in general, England haveplayed better than expected.

Perhaps the odd thing is that the expectations were so low? Why can't England win the World Cup? You've got everything going for you - an incredibly popular League with enormous depth; stacks - I mean sh*t loads of cash to entice and train the best players; fantastic world-wide media coverage ... if I knew more about the technicalities of the game I feel certain I could go on and on.

You know from the London Olympics that anything is possible. World Cup 2018 is definitely attainable. Go for it! Even I might barrack for England if you go into the next one believing it's possible.

There is no single reason why you cannot do it!

[marathondan]

The main reason for the low expectations is the inexperience of the current crop of players. The England squad is the 6th least experienced in Brazil (although France rank 3rd and Netherlands 7th, and they're not doing too badly).

But the super-rich, super-exposed mega-league that you refer is really a hindrance rather than a help. There just aren't enough English players getting enough top-level experience, because of the large numbers of overseas players in the league. It would be fine if there was reciprocal traffic, with lots of English players plying their trade overseas, but that almost never happens. I'm sure a large part of that is the language barrier; most non-English players will have at least basic English, whereas most English people can manage little more than dos cervezas, per favor in more than a couple of tongues.

Quick trivia question (don't google it) - which is the only nation at the 2014 world cup whose entire squad plays club football in their home nation's league?

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Quick trivia question (don't google it) - which is the only nation at the 2014 world cup whose entire squad plays club football in their home nation's league?

Um, I've no idea. I'm guessing it would have to be a wealthy nation with a high-paying club competition, so probably not Brazil, though that was my first thought.

I'll guess Switzerland.

?

[marathondan]

Anyone else?

[El Gordo]

Quick trivia question (don't google it) - which is the only nation at the 2014 world cup whose entire squad plays club football in their home nation's league?

Um, I've no idea. I'm guessing it would have to be a wealthy nation with a high-paying club competition, so probably not Brazil, though that was my first thought.

I'll guess Switzerland.

?

Well, definitely not Switzerland -- many of their players feature in the German Bundesliga, and one went to Chelsea recently. And Brazil export most of their squad to Europe.

Hmm.

Er, hang on.....

Could it be England?

Just trying to think of an England player who plays outside the country... anyone? Defoe is in Canada, but didn't make the squad. Lampard hasn't started yet in the US....

Unless I'm overlooking someone obvious, is it England?

[marathondan]

No, England have one player who doesn't play in England. Arguably their least important player, their third choice keeper, plays all the way over in... Scotland.

The answer isn't all that interesting, but you'll go "hmm, yeah" when you hear it.

[Sweder]

Good shout, EG. Would have been my guess. North Korea would have been a shoe-in had they qualified.
The opposite would be ... Belgium?

Is the answer Chile?

[marathondan]

No, the fairly dull answer is... Russia. Kind of stands to reason - it's pretty rare to see a Russian player in the PL. The data are all here.

[El Gordo]

No, the fairly dull answer is... Russia. Kind of stands to reason - it's pretty rare to see a Russian player in the PL. The data are all here.

Good question, ta. I'll try it out at work tomorrow.

[El Gordo]

No, the fairly dull answer is... Russia. Kind of stands to reason - it's pretty rare to see a Russian player in the PL. The data are all here.

Veering off the subject, I can report that you've made my day, old chap, and not for the first time.

I admire a fellow who still treats "data" as a plural. When writing my work style guide, I reluctantly opined that The battle to keep data as a plural has been lost. Most people now think it sounds wrong, so better to treat as singular -- though some of us will never feel wholly comfortable writing "the data is...".

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

-- though some of us will never feel wholly comfortable writing "the data is...".[/i]

This thread is beginning to sound like a cryptic crossword.

A datum with my grammarian?

[marathondan]

I wondered if anyone would spot that. I was in two minds whether to err or to "are". But I do have a certain reputation to keep up regarding large quantities of tabulated information. And yes, I did download the spreadsheet from the Guardian article. And perform filters on it.