World Cup Brazil 2014 / Weltmeisterschaft Brasilien

[El Gordo]

Mark Steel in the Independent puts it well. 'Perspective with sport is an art' http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comm...65676.html

Ta for the link, Tom. Highly entertaining.

I went off Mark Steel for a long time, then re-warmed to him again through the various Radio 4 series of his "Mark Steel's In Town" shows which reminded me just how perceptive and talented he is.

[Sweder]

High horse or no, I stand by my assertion that what Suarez has done on three occasions suggests an inherent malfunction that needs addressing before he takes the field. Of course, there's plenty of hysteria about. Gather that many journalists, give them unlimited air-time and webspace, not to mention caipirinhas and mojitos, you could whip up a revolution.

I can't argue against much of what EG says about the duality of morality in professional sport. FIFA is as bent as a nine-bob note. Players dive and roll and beg for one another to be carded at every turn. Heck, they even claim throw-ins when they know the ball touched them last. That sounds like a poor gag, but it's true. You see it at all levels. Football is morally bankrupt.

Leg-breaking, two-footed, over-the-ball challenges should be 'stamped out', but these and biting, elbowing, deliberately stamping on an opponent's instep (rife these days, known as 'leaving something on him') are not mutually exclusive. No-one doubts that a bite is usually less serious than a broken leg, yet surely both deserve punitive action. Suarez has a condition, an affliction. Far from suffering the consequences of his actions his club should sue him for potential lost revenue and fine him for the matches he misses. I feel some sympathy for Brendan Rodgers, but he knew what Suarez was like when he coaxed him into staying. Barca want him and I'm sure he'll move. The man tried to engineer a move to Arsenal just over a year ago. He sells platitudes to Liverpool fans about his love for the club whilst his agents flap their skirts at the Spanish giants. He wants away. He's a rare talent, a devil on the ball but he carries a rogue gene. You pays your money, you takes your choice.

If you're going to ban Cantona for eight months for kicking an abusive fan, you have to expect similarly ludicrous sentences for misdemeanours that cause public shock and outrage. I didn't hear too many crying about the length of Eric's sentence at the time.

[Sweder]

No comparison. Tyson bit Holyfield's f***ing ear off his f***ing head.

Good point. Let's wait until he actually eats something. Or someone.

The statements coming out the Suarez camp shed new light on the matter. In view of this I retract my previous remarks and retire gracefully

   

PS just read an interesting aside from Paul Wilson in the Observer. A balanced view, as you might expect. Interesting that, just after Luis had bitten Ivanovic, Dave Wheelan, the Wigan chairman, advised Rodgers to get rid 'before he bites somebody else'. Wilson also noted Suarez's reaction immediately after the assault on Chiellini. 'He knew the mask had slipped'.

[marathondan]

Plenty of sanity in what EG and Sweder have said. I don't think football can be properly cleaned up without a ref's assistant in a video review room. Otherwise there'd be too many incorrect punishments handed out.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Video refs are a major headache - without a doubt they help get correct decisions, but they slow the game enormously, with many referrals to the video ref being of minor consequence, and therefore ultimately frustrating. Proceed with caution.

[marathondan]

Some sanity being expressed here regarding the Jacques Cousteaus of the football world.

[Charliecat5]

Video refs are a major headache - without a doubt they help get correct decisions, but they slow the game enormously, with many referrals to the video ref being of minor consequence, and therefore ultimately frustrating. Proceed with caution.

I tend to agree with the use of video refs... good idea in principle but could change the dynamics of the game if overused. Anyway, all this World Cup nonsense, it isn't real football is it? Real football is non-league, grass roots stuff. You don't have to travel to Brazil to experience great football... watching Lewes Ladies on a Sunday afternoon at the Dripping Pan is as good as it gets - and Lewes are a long way from having any goal technology.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

I tend to agree with the use of video refs... good idea in principle but could change the dynamics of the game if overused.

And that's the problem - because they have the video ref to call on, field referees and umpires tend to not make decisions without referral. Just as we've seen cricket slowed down by constant referrals to the technology, so rugby league in this country has become a slave to video as field refs refer very nearly every try to the video box to "check" something, and the round ball code will surely follow.

It's a difficult call though, as everyone wants the correct decision to be made, but I think Charlie has nailed it - the best thing is probably to downsize and follow the local, amateur league where it's all good fun and no-one minds too much if the refs cock up occasionally. As long as the bar is well stocked for the after match piss-up, it's all good, clean fun.

Fun. Now there's a concept the professional sporting bodies of the world should adopt!

[Seafront Plodder]

The most embarrassing semi since I went to see Brokeback Mountain.

In celebration, I had German peppered salami for breakfast.

[Sweder]

I cheered each goal as it went in, and with it the death of all that hyperbolic arse-wipe about Neymar's shirt and Sideshow Bob pointing to the heavens. The guild is off the lily, the curtain yanked back to reveal 'Big' Phil Scolari puffing away on a dog-end hunched over A Patron's Guide To Bluster And Bullshit.

Well played Germany. It seems likely they will meet Argentina on Sunday. Whilst Van Gaal has proved himself a decent enough tactician I fear the Cloggies will fall foul of a combination of Argie filth and perceived (by me and others I've spoken to) external pressure to see at least one South American finalist. I do hope I'm wrong.

Hup! Holland, Hup!

[Seafront Plodder]

Can't disagree with that Sweder. As much as I like to watch the Dutch, an all European final seems a wrong somehow.

Last night did get me wondering what odds you would have got on Germany scoring 7. Anyone know how to find out? Just out of curiosity.

[marathondan]

Last night did get me wondering what odds you would have got on Germany scoring 7. Anyone know how to find out? Just out of curiosity.

The odds on that scoreline were between 500-1 and 999-1, apparently.

[El Gordo]

Can't disagree with that Sweder. As much as I like to watch the Dutch, an all European final seems a wrong somehow.

I was desperate for the Cloggies to triumph -- not because I have much affection for them anymore (that dribbled away during the 2010 WC Final, while every 2014 Robben swallow dive has added to my resentment) -- but because I'd loved to have seen a distraught and punch-drunk Brazil pitched against their hated, ancient enemy in the 3rd and 4th place play-off. What an entertaining horror show that could have been, with the knee-wobbling likelihood of losing to the Argies by the odd red card in 5, and probably a single goal, given the dire scoring record of the bastards from across the border, enough to bring down the entire continent in a bloody revolution -- beginning on the streets of Sao Paolo within moments of the final whistle.

But we won't get that.

As for the final, I'm fairly committed to wanting a Germany victory. They deserve it and Argentina don't. My office is a sea of Germans (so perhaps I should expect a tide game?) and they are a pretty decent bunch. Incredibly enthusiastic and knowledgeable about the game, without being too annoyingly over-confident about their chances. The exception is my boss, but it's OK for bosses to be annoying. It's in their nature. And anything that keeps my boss in a good mood for the next 4 years -- a pledge he has made, should his nation triumph on Sunday -- can't be a bad thing.

I was planning a jaunt to the Schwarzwald tomorrow to do a bit of gateau nibbling and cuckoo-clock observing, but I'm now thinking I might stop over on Sunday night in Freiberg or environs to catch the game in a bar. It seems too good a chance to miss, though I've been on Der Wagen for 6 weeks now, and can report that beer-free is even better than free beer. It may seem like a challenging prospect -- to remain in this healthily aloof state, while millions of bouncing, bevied-up, Lederhosened German youths beg me to join them in a Stein or two of the local Weissbier, but I am determined not to break my resolve -- world champions or not.

Hurrah!

[Sweder]

After a cracking finale to what is widely agreed to have been the best ever World Cup Finals, I'm happy enough with tonight's outcome. I nearly switched allegience right after Muller dived over his own leg in an embarassing attempt to con the generally excellent officials, but remained loyal to my Northern European brethren. I recently opined that 'Schweinsteiger' translated as 'Pig-fucker' (actually, pig-mounter). Yet I'm bound to say after tonight it must simply mean 'warrior'. The man was immense.

Our house echoed to the strains of 'Don't cry for long, Argentina' as I searched fruitlessly for shots of Diego Maradona weeping into his vulgar gold chain. I suspect I was happier that Argentina lost than I was for Germany's glory. The young fellow took his winning goal superbly. Social Media suggests that Google searches for 'Goatse' proved troubling for many. (Don't do it, by the way. You can never un-see that). My own preferred tabloid headline would be 'Götze, cow-son, Götze!' in honour of our very own Chas 'n' Dave, that chirpy Cockerney duo who once eulogised legendary North London Argentine Osvaldo Ardilles.

FIFA blotted - or is that Blattered? - their copy-book one last time, singling out Lionel Messi as 'Player of the Tournament'. He wasn't even the best player for Argentina - that was Mascherano, a man who confessed to 'tearing his anus' in making that wonderful last-ditch tackle to deny Arjen Robben at the end of the semi-final. James (Ham-es) Rodrieguez, scorer of the best goal of a splendid bunch, should have added POTT to his Golden Boot. Neuer, the German giant, received the Golden Glove, an award that had more than a hint of Michael Jackson about it. I rather hoped he'd squeal and spin on his heel as he received it. Alas.

During the match I opted for the Beeb's red button: pictures from BBC One, comms from Radio 5 Live. Tonight saw, or rather heard, Mike Ingham's last ever live match commentary. He called both second halves, and Götze's winner, impeccably. Ingham has been Radio 5's Paul Simon to Alan Green's Garfunkle since the 1990 World Cup. His considered, measured, well-informed tones will be sorely missed. John Murray, good as he is, has big boots to fill.

[El Gordo]

Update:

Apart from my boss, whose triumphalism I will forgive in exchange for his pledge to remain in a good mood for the next 3 years and 11 months, I can report that my largely German workplace has been joyous, but respectfully so.

In a remarkably similar train of partisan thought to @sweder, I also started off firmly in the DE camp but became increasingly exasperated by Müller in particular. One fears he has become dragged into the cheating mindset by his shameless München colleague, Robben. Both fine footballers whose reputations are in peril.

It got so bad that I actually reached the point of switching my allegiance to the Argies late in the game. Mercifully, our swarthy brethren from the dark side of the Falklands resolved not to be out-Argied and returned to the full-on brutality we have come to love and loathe. It saved the day, and I was firmly back on message by the time that the likeable Mario Götze opted for permanent deification. I was delighted that the match was resolved without penalties.

I'd been in Germany for the weekend, but just a few hours before kick-off, while enjoying a post-lunch coffee in the delightful town of Baden-Baden, in the northern Black Forest, I realised there were too many weaknesses in my original plan, which had been to mosey on south and catch the game in a bar on German territory -- probably either in Freiburg or Konstanz, just across the border from Switzerland. The major flaw in this scheme was that I am still firmly positioned on the friendless wagon. (Today is the 50th consecutive day in this spell of casual teetotalism).

The very thought of sitting in a bar for several hours, sober, while those around me sunk deeper into their World Cups, became crashingly abominable. I immediately set sail for home, arriving back 5 hours later, with 3 minutes to spare before kick-off.

Some of my colleagues had headed for an indoor arena in Zurich, where 4,000 Germans and about 200 Argentina supporters were gathered. Unlike (one suspects) any similar assembly of England fans in the UK, the beer flowed freely until supplies ran out sometime after 4 a.m., at which point the jubilant masses tottered home. One can only imagine the emotional chaos when the goal went in.

And so, another World Cup, and a good one, is over. Do other people measure their lives in these tournaments? I sometimes ponder the question of how many more I will live to see. If I can squeeze in another 5 or 6, I won't feel too hard done by, though I'm not expecting to see England triumph again before that ultimate 'bastard in the black' puts the mournful whistle to his lips to signal that it really is all over.

[marathondan]

And so, another World Cup, and a good one, is over. Do other people measure their lives in these tournaments? I sometimes ponder the question of how many more I will live to see. If I can squeeze in another 5 or 6, I won't feel too hard done by, though I'm not expecting to see England triumph again before that ultimate 'bastard in the black' puts the mournful whistle to his lips to signal that it really is all over.

Hmm, World Cup 2038... I wonder what changes we will have seen by then? Fully immersive virtual reality coverage, perhaps. And might we have seen the finals hosted in Australia?

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

Hmm, World Cup 2038... I wonder what changes we will have seen by then? Fully immersive virtual reality coverage, perhaps. And might we have seen the finals hosted in Australia?

Well it's on the cards - if Qatar lose the 2022 Cup through the bribery scandals, we (i.e. Australia) have already stated we can take them, and as we suffered disproportionately from the corruption (receiving only one vote after pouring tens of millions of dollars into the bid following successful pre-bid bids ... er, if you follow me), it's still possible for 2022.

Anyway, we keep bidding for the damn thing. It has to happen one of these quadyears. And we wouldn't be so damn foolish as to host the things mid-summer, either.

[Mid Life Crisis Marathon Man]

And so, another World Cup, and a good one, is over. Do other people measure their lives in these tournaments?

Definitely. In my case I probably measure it more by Olympics than football World Cups, but I well understand the measure of it, and I'm sure we aren't in any way alone.

That said, my earliest sporting memory would almost certainly be the 1966 World Cup final - not watching it of course, but the news and impact of it - because both my parents and older brothers were/are English and so it of course impacted on my young brain even then. But the '68 Olympics I remember very clearly, perhaps because they coincided with my seventh birthday, and if I wasn't a sports lover already, they certainly turned me. Since then, each Olympics marks another four years of my life... rather too many of them now for my liking, but there you are.

[Bierzo Baggie]

Germany were vastly superior to everybody else. They played a bit like Spain of 4 years ago but scored more goals. I think they scored more goals just in that one match against Brazil. Pigsticker was immense in the final, the great leader that England lack. Muller was a goggle eyed lunatic. It's a shame Spain blew it so early as I think they were the only ones who could have given Germany a decent game.